I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D

[theman53]

I need the HE 221w. I had 2 professionally rebuilt vw t3 hotside with a Mercedes t3 cold side. One let loose in 100 miles this one let loose in about 1,000 miles. The shaft snapped on the last one, the first one the nut came loose in the compressor wheel. Thanks for the offer.

I would sure talking to the "professional" that rebuilt the turbos. The only thing that should cause the nut on the turbine shaft to come off is if it wasn't tight to begin with. Any turbo that self destructs in 100 miles was FUBAR when you put it on as long as a foreign object did not get ingested. Were they both done by the same guy?

this was the problem


the turbo I had is the short unconnected red line and the rest are the he221w. it was overspeeding around 100,000 rpm at 18psi. if I ran 12psi or less it was ok. I was planning on running 29psi but it would not make more than 18psi it just ran out of air. When breaking the engine in I had it set somewhere around that 15-18 psi, after the first one went I set it back to 10psi. The first day I turned it back up the 2nd rebuild exploded. The rebuilder covered his work the first time and said he thought I needed a bov as it looked like the shaft was trying to spin backwards and if it failed in the same way he would not do a 2nd warranty. It failed in the same manner, but this time broke the shaft instead of unthreading the nut. What I think was happening was it was too much load when overspeeding and it pushed it up against the compressor housing. It was not his fault. I was experimenting and failed on the turbo. Everything else I have hit dead on with this engine. I just did not figure that the head would flow so much that the turbo would be suspect to that much overspeeding.
         The new turbos map goes SO much farther to the right and up that on a stock head it looks stable to 45psi. On mine I am hoping for 29 if I need it to cool the fuel down. It will be here soon and hopefully I can make a downpipe before it is time to kill bambi as when fall hits that is my life at that point.

[RabbitJockey]

here is a link a friend of mine sent me when were talking about lucas blowing up turbos.

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?72536-Four-turbos-gone-bad&p=1010220&viewfull=1#post1010220

[Gizmoman]

Very interesting. . .
I'm kinda surprised the turbo builder didn't suspect the over-rev possibility as I'm sure you mentioned the head and intake mods. Wouldn't the flow numbers the machine shop provided designate the size/capability if the turbo, or is it just "voodoo" engineering? It may sound silly but I wonder if a larger shaft would be possible.

Makes me wonder if my port job means I should lower my boost. I didn't remove the max but did take out quite a bit. It's a K14 with 360 bearing and was running 15 psi. The engine is an AAZ and the IP is Giles. I really don't want to loose my turbo. Hopefully I'll have it running in a few more months

[srgtlord]

Hard to beleive one can create "too efficient" of an engine to the point where turbos blow up 

[theman53]

I didn't have the flow numbers until I posted them here. The turbo was built last year and until it blew I had no clue on how to read maps...now I am getting it. The turbo rebuilder didn't know what I was doing really and didn't realize the size of the engine and mods. I told him what I wanted and he did it...now that it blew up and I have had time to talk to him he said the exhaust was way too small for that setup and that it wouldn't sustain the high boost I wanted. Now I know...

Also, I wouldn't worry too much on a K14. I don't quite understand it but if mine wasn't pushing 20lbs a minute it wouldn't have been as bad. If I was only pushing 10lbs/min it wouldn't have fought itself so bad from what others have told me. Also the 360 main bearing will help it if it does overspeed, as evidence in my round 2 lasted almost 1,000 miles compared to 100 with the standard 270 bearing. IMHO you will have instant max boost and to me it would be annoying, but you probably will run out of turbo at the upper rpm but it won't be over speeding that bad and you won't be moving that much air to worry about it. It is one of those things that on paper it can look one way but real life can be different so you will have to play with it. Also remember I have much bigger valves than the aaz does and more porting so yours will not flow near what mine did. Realize that my head flows more than the one in David Visard's article in the sticky section at the top of the page. It was different inches of mercury and what not but still I flow almost 150cm compared to the stock #s of approx. 100cfm.

[theman53]

Hard to beleive one can create "too efficient" of an engine to the point where turbos blow up 

It is the same thing as running a GT15 or K03 at 25psi...at some point the engine is too efficient for the turbo to perform and live a long time. Run it too fast and any turbo will blow up eventually. My turbo was just too small for the way the engine flowed. All the minds I have gathered on this say that the head is close to 100% volumetric efficiency, even at 90% it would have been a problem for that turbo.

But yes it is hard to believe that a 45 trim was too small for a vw 1.6, but it is for mine.

[RabbitJockey]

I think to blow them up so quick u must be moving 25+ lbs per min.  I dont think theres a way to convert the head flow numbers to what youre actually flowing since they are just a measurement of flow through the port at certain pressure differential and certain valve lift.  Ur definitely moving alot of air tho even with the stock cam haha.

[Jetmugg]

I'm no expert on turbo selection, but just curious if you had an idea about how a Garrett GT2056 (non-VNT variety) would work on your 1.6, in terms of flow.

Steve.

[RabbitJockey]

gt2056 is available in a few different trims, but the map i have seen for it shows it is a great turbo for performance, it flows around 28 lbs a min, and its efficiency islands go well over 30psi.  that doesn't necessarily mean u can run 30 psi, like in themans case the compressor was very capable of running over 18psi, but not at the amount of flow he was able to create.  gt2056 is a great turbo for a 1.6

[Rock3tman]

I was wondering, with such a great 1.6 IDI build - if you had considered the more modern solution of a VNT-17 or VNT-20 (whichever flows what you need within their rpm range)?   Libbydiesel has proven a great mechanical vane control scheme that looks like you could implement with a bracket welded to your intake plenum + a bellcrank, adjustable rods, etc., to actuate the vanes from the IP throttle arm.   At full throttle, increasing VNT boost would progressively open the vanes to reduce drive pressure and help control the turbocharger's shaft speed in a more linear fashion vs. a wastegate setup that has both a MBC spring and a spring at the wastegate that seems would be harder to control progressively.

I guess bottom mount ALH-style integral would interfere with MK2 engine mount, but attached is a photo of a VNT-20 top mounted (either could be mounted this way):
  

[RabbitJockey]

 I can answer that since it had alot to do with me


The idea was to build this hybrid turbo which bolts on like factory and uses the manifold, down pipe and oil lines that he already had.  While on paper it should have been good for 200hp in reality it exploded.

[theman53]

Yep. What rabbit jockey said. I would do a vnt if I had a lazy way to control the vanes. I make an engine mount bracket *currently one on my car* that anyone can mount a VNT from an ALH onto our 1.6 engine. So that is not an issue for a low mounted turbo. Just the fact that I haven't made a fool proof lazy way to do it. I finally got my head around Libby's design and it is too much for me to do right now.

Also, I think that the ALH VNT 15 xx no matter which one is too small for what I would like to do.

[theman53]

I have about all I can do until the turbo shows up. I tracked it and it is in New York in customs. Should be here by the weekend I hope.

I am showing you the V bands are welded on and the manifold is ported with some clear shots to the turbo inlet...for the performance impaired.

I tried to take as little out of the cast manifold as possible, as I did not want to add any volume to it at all. I did cut some so that the longest port wouldn't have to go around a bump to get to the turbo. The ports are only gasket matched, the inner radius is smoothed a little, and the inside of the entire ports were sanded with 100 grit.

[theman53]

September 24, 2013, 6:23 pm
 

WARRENDALE, PA 15086
 

[8v-of-fury]

DAmn, What manifold is that? A t25?