!979 Rabbit Diesel Need help!

[RabbitJockey]

Where is vw Tim located?  We need to dispatch a service technician from vwdiesel.net to his location in order to straighten this mess out

[ORCoaster]

NO DUH!

[vw-tim]

Can't answer that question having never installed studs in head.  Very interesting on the bolt 8V.  Grind off 2.5 mm?  could that be a solution?  Nah, better to just go another washer. 

i just don't understand why it would be the washer though? cuz its not like the bolts are even bottoming I thought they were bottoming out and you couldn't get them to spec because of it/out or is it because the head bolts I've been using the washer is to thick only allowing just a little bit of the head bolt to thread into the block The threads are likely way down and you have plenty of bite there\ and then when i go to torque it the bolt eats up the threads in the block because they are weaker at the top...The bolts are chewing up the top part of the threads?  Like stripped out?/ so with a smaller washer the bolt can thread down more into the block allowing it to be torqued and not chew up the threads in the block? No, no, no we were thinking you use what you had AND add another thin washer.  This would give you more distance at the bottom of the block to send the threads into and could get your spec torque setting of 66\but my question is why do they make these head bolts then if they wont even work?Do you have some poor quality steel or what?  This sounds funky to me.  Pictures of bolts or threaded holes chewed up might help\ it just doesn't make any sense to me.. am i using the wrong head bolts? on another block the head bolts are not the 12mm they are the hex ones Yep 10 mm hex heads are the 11 mm diameter and won't work for you so stop right there\what if i just swapped those out and then try those and just see? i know you cant reuse head bolts but it might be at least worth the test? idk But you do now, can't be done.

okay ill take pictures today when i get off work also maybe they are bottoming out and thats why im having my issues but when i had my head off i put one of the head bolts in the holes and measured how much it gets poked through and i put some tap top of the head bolt so just show that this amount gets threaded into the block and it really wasnt that much so i screwed it into the block and i could keep screwing it in way past that point til it reached the bottom.

and ill take pics once i pull the head off the block to just show exactly what i mean and whats going on soon as i get off work today!

[vw-tim]

okay so here is what ive come up with and i think it really rules out that the head bolts are bottoming out and thats why i cant get them torqued... let me begind with this comparison i have another engine that has the allen head bolts on it and so i took one of those out to compare it with the head bolts that ive been using...

 


and from what i can tell just buy eye balling it i can get measurments on it as well but they pretty much look identical i think the allen one is a tiny bit longer but still the washers are the same size. and so that brings me to this point if the washers are the same size then it cant be the washer size that isnt allowing me to torque i think if put on another washer like everyone suggested it wouldnt even be able to thread into the block.. but i may be wrong anyway so next thing i did was put the head bolt i was using and the allen head bolt and i put it into the head and see how much of it sticks out and i put some white paint on the threads to show how much sticks out...



and now it looks like the same length on both head bolts stick out



( the washer fell off the allen bolt but i did have it on when i put it in the head)

now i then screwed it into the block just by hand as far as i could turn it til it stopped which i assumed it bottomed out and then i marked it again



and so i pulled it out and compared it with the other exact same head bolt and here is what i got there is a gap between them..



but dont get me wrong i do understand that just because i set a head bolt into the head doesnt mean it will screw down farther but i mean is it really gonna tighten down so much more that it will bottom out? i personally dont think so... but please what do you guys think? any other things i could do to test this i just really want to get to the bottom of all this.

 i think i might just buy some head studs and stop wasting my money on head bolts and stuff idk head studs sound like the way to go with these 11mm size blocks because then i can tighten the stud down all the way past the point a head bolt can go i think that might fix my issue and i can then have the head fully torqued down. Or i was thinking of just cleaning up this other block i have idk what do you guys suggest there thank you!

[ORCoaster]

i have another engine that has the Allen head bolts on it and so i took one of those out to compare it with the head bolts that ive been using...

Do you have the original head bolts that were working prior to teardown?  As it was stated here there were bolts that were 2 mm shorter and counting the number of threads between the white lines in the last picture on an 11 mm 1.5 pitch bolt is just about 2 mm is it not? 

There is no way I can see where the bolts you have presented will work to tighten the head down.  And you will need more washers then I would be comfortable throwing on there to get things tight. 

So if you don't have short bolts somewhere I would be going for the studs.  It is your call but that is what it looks like to me is the best case solution. 

Super Weird or Very Weird as is the case.  Why do you thing they have the VW emblem on the front of every car?

let us know how the studs work out. 

[vw-tim]

okay so im gonna replace all the brake lines in the car and i just have a few questions:



what is this? is it a check valve which keeps fluid constantly in the back and wont allow it to flow back forward or is it just a connecting thing? Its the piece that is located inside the car it connects line coming from the MC to the line that runs into the pressure regulator thing this thing:



what does that presure regulator exactly do?

[ORCoaster]

Looks like a connector to me.  Good luck getting that apart.  Heavy soaking with penetrating oil a couple of times then good wrenches on what you have.  Lay one on the other and squeeze them together towards each other.  Be a 1/6 turn maybe.  Best way I know to keep from slipping the wrenches off and buggering up the flats of the nuts.

[8v-of-fury]

good LINE wrenches on what you have. 

[ORCoaster]

Most of my best "LINE" wrenches end up being vice grips in the end.  Just don't have the money or need for them special tools.  Don't do it often enough.

[vw-tim]

i actually found out there brake proportioning valves.

http://forums.motivemag.com/showthread.php?4844361

and yeah i got them soaking right now! ha hope these come off smoothly and easy

[R.O.R-2.0]

the last pic looks like a load sensing prop valve.. let me re-phrase that, it IS a load sensing prop valve.

the first pic looks like a NON-load sensing prop valve, or residual pressure valve.

yes, you CAN run without a prop valve, but your rear brakes will be locking up all the time, unless you keep a substantial load in the back.

i bled the brakes on my GTI once, and accidentally left the prop valve OPEN (so it basically was not working) and the brakes worked AMAZING.. holy hell it would stop quick.. but if you dogged the brakes, the backs would just lock up and you would slide sideways.

if nothing else, install some mk2 non load sensing prop valves in there..

delete the one under the truck, and install the ones on the master cylinder.. need some pics? my GTI (86 golf at heart) has them on the master cylinder, where as a real GTI will have a load sensing prop valve under the back seat, drivers side..

the load sensing valves ALMOST ALWAYS LEAK..

[ORCoaster]

I couldn't make heads or tails out of the second picture not ever having laid under a pickup to have that knowledge.  Now that I know the picture was taken from under the truck and not looking down into the engine bay I can relate.  Thanks.  

Now you AND I know what they are.  DAS

[vw-tim]

so got my head studs in and the head and head gasket back on everything is finally torqued down! got it torqued down to 65 ft lbs. now time to get the rest of the engine put back together and get this thing back in the car!

[vw-tim]

so little update whats been going on engine still isnt back in the car. im still working on replacing all the brake lines and now i have to replace fuel tank and all fuel lines they all started to leak ha so i pulled out the rear suspension assembly and fuel tank gonna take out all the lines next and then i guess it would be a perfect opportunity to get the floor pans replaced sense no fuel lines and all that will be out of the way.

So where is the cheapest place to buy floor pans or do i even need to replace the floor pan just cut a piece of metal to fill up the big hole i have? what do you guys think?

[8v-of-fury]

Depends how bad it is, and/or how much you want to spend. I have seen patch jobs outlast the rest of the car, so a whole new floor pan is only if you are going for 100% resto I feel. If it doesn't interfere with how the seat bolts down and is safe, I'd just patch it up.