2.3 CIS into 1.6TD conversion

[Katada]

Hi everyone,

First, let me thank you all for your efforts in this impressive forum.

I would like to share my experiment with diesel engine started last year, I removed the 2.3L CIS crap from my
Audi 80 and dropped 1.6TD in place, have no clue about this engine life time or condition, I believe it’s from MK1,
The IP has no LDA, part number : Bosch 0 460 484 927  ,  VW  068 130 081M

My brother handled all the mechanical work, I took the ECU/TCU/electrical stuff, build new RPM sensor on cam
Sprocket, restored TPS movement in relation to IP , etc..

I changed the timing belt, don’t have a timing gauge so it was a try and error until get it running nice, after many
Tries and adjustments finally got it starts easy and idles at around 850 rpm, light black smoke on startup and heavy
Load, and kept it like this until recharged the A/C system, the troubles started here.

When turn the A/C on, the rpm drops to around 750 and smoke is out of the exhaust, to be accurate I am not sure
of the smoke color but it’s not black, it may be blue/white mix, and only out on A/C load, not on normal idle.

After a LOT of reading, decided to retard the timing a bit, the smoke is gone even on A/C load, but engine has
Weak power band, so I disengaged the cold start lever from the idle linkage so it will control the timing only
Without changing idle speed, this way I can see the timing effect on smoke, now with A/C running if the lever
On retard position there is no smoke, and a visible smoke when put it on advance position.

Checked the IP housing pressure and readings around 30 psi at idle, and 35 psi with A/C on, adjusting the max
Fuel delivery not helping, I am confused ! ?

Any one got same problem before ?

Advices are much appreciated

Katada

[Dakotakid]

A 081M pump is an Eco diesel pump. You apparently have an Eco engine.
Air cond. pulls on these diesels quite a lot, especially at lower rpms......not at all unusual.
Don't be afraid to set your idle higher.
If you retarded the timing and now get less power, the cause is obvious.

[Katada]

Hi Dakotakid

Thank you for the reply, don’t know about Eco but the attached pictures are a match to what I have.

If I set the rpm higher I will put more load on the automatic transmission and get worse smoke on
Stop/go with harsh braking.

The extra retarding is for test purposes, the actual timing now has good power band but with blue/white s
moke as stated early, this is the problem.

Regards.

Katada

[theman53]

It almost sounds as if you have the idle being controlled by the main fuel screw and not the idle screw. Doesn't make sense your pump numbers as that is an N/A pump.

You should be able to find a manual trans pretty cheap on here...

[R.O.R-2.0]

its not an N/A pump.. its an ECO pump..

even n/a pumps were better than eco pumps.

the eco pump was the smallest plunger you could get..

[Dakotakid]

Just out of curiosity.....did you mate this diesel engine up to the automatic which was already in the Audi? And attempt to run air conditioning, too? Wow...like rolling a bowling ball up a wall!

[Katada]

Just out of curiosity.....did you mate this diesel engine up to the automatic which was already in the Audi? And attempt to run air conditioning, too? Wow...like rolling a bowling ball up a wall!

Hi Dakotakid, Yes I did 

Since this pump is Eco any chance to find stock adjustments for Jetta Eco equipped with A/C ? , maybe close pictures ?

Thanks

[R.O.R-2.0]

Just out of curiosity.....did you mate this diesel engine up to the automatic which was already in the Audi? And attempt to run air conditioning, too? Wow...like rolling a bowling ball up a wall!

Hi Dakotakid, Yes I did 

Since this pump is Eco any chance to find stock adjustments for Jetta Eco equipped with A/C ? , maybe close pictures ?

Thanks

wow, that car is going to be UTTERLY GUTLESS even with a turbo..

automatic and air conditioning? NO THANKS!!

[CRSMP5]

2.3 = 5... so what tranny did he use?? 5 no bolt to 4 very easily..

what year 80 is it too? thinking 88+ is electronic with comp.. if so how did you get that to work?

pics... we deserve pics..

[R.O.R-2.0]

2.3 = 5... so what tranny did he use?? 5 no bolt to 4 very easily..

what year 80 is it too? thinking 88+ is electronic with comp.. if so how did you get that to work?

pics... we deserve pics..

87+ trannies had BOTH bolt patterns..

[Dakotakid]

Katada:
This smaller volume Eco jetta diesel pump adjusts the same as other VE fuel pump. They just put out less fuel in order to deliver a bit more economy.

The problem which I think you are having is that these diesels struggle to spin a heavier torque convertor which is in an automatic transmission. Additionally, your transmission is geared for the original gasoline engine (final ratios) and, again, this little diesel struggles to cope with these challenges.

Then, you wish to run an air conditioner with it as well.

This is all sort of like making a little burro or mule pull the Space Shuttle around on the pad at the launch site prior to take off. It's a LOT of work.

I actually had a 1984 normally aspirated diesel Jetta with automatic trans and air conditioning which I drove for many years and many miles. This car was slow at the best of times (to say the least). However, it had an automatic trans which had a final ratio which was a bit more well suited for the engine.

People used to ask me how long it took to travel somewhere in this car. I always used to say, "...ahhh...I don't know, cause I fell asleep....."

The car really struggled to run the air conditioner....but, the cold air was nice many days....so I understand.

Getting this car to idle well and not lock up the automatic clutch (while trying to run the air cond.) is going to be tough to achieve.  My advice is to only run the air when you are moving (well under way).

As far as smoke at idle and stuff, I wouldn't really worry about all that stuff too much. For the most part, all that is not too important at this point. Just keeping the crankshaft rotating is going to be a pretty tall order, for the most part.

The pump adjustments are achieved the same as the other pumps, so any info you find will apply.

Additionally, your engine will just naturally have some turbo lag due to the way these old style turbo engines are. This lag is going to be even greater with an automatic trans and air.

I sincerely hope I have been helpful here. Many of us tend to sort of have fun kidding around about the guttless nature of these engines.

Now, you could substitute a normally aspirated non-aneroid pump with the one which you have. That would help the power somewhat. If you do THAT, you will also need the other fuel lines which come with another pump. Because, the fuel lines which service the 081M/Eco pump are a different length due to the longer delivery valves on the fuel dist. head on the Eco pump. So, if you get another  pump...get the fuel lines as well.

[libbydiesel]

Katada:
This smaller volume Eco jetta diesel pump adjusts the same as other VE fuel pump. They just put out less fuel in order to deliver a bit more economy.

Nope.  They did it for emissions.  The smaller plunger delivering the same fuel results in additional pumping losses and hurts fuel economy.  It does deliver a finer mist, tho, which improves emissions.

[Dakotakid]

Just now I am seeing those pictures of this engine. Huh....looks pretty normal. Why did I have visions of a Frankenstein "bolt through the neck" and big stitches sort of look?

Too much time on the "Rip van Winkle" (Jacks) forum...I guess.

[Katada]

Its 1992 with TCU, I will post pictures tomorrow that shows all details.

Words are not enough to thank you guys, it’s been a great help. 

[Katada]

First, an update,

I drived it today around 420 Km with A/C on all the way, average speed is 90 Km/h, will check tomorrow the engine
Oil level to make sure if there is oil consumption or not.

Now to the pictures:

Engine - front view 1, don’t be confused with cam valves cover, the original one was rusty so put this one in place.



Engine - front view 2



Engine-Tranny 1



Engine-Tranny 2



Engine-Tranny  3



IP



RPM sensor



TPS



Since the 92 model has TCU, it needs three signals to function properly, VSS, RPM and TPS, the VSS signal is already
Available so had to regenerate RPM using hall effect sensor attached near the cam sprocket as above, as a drawback,
no more cover for timing belt at the moment.

TPS is a hard part, had put it away from the IP and run a second steel wire to control it, not the perfect way though,
still on progress to make a better design.

to be continued.