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Got a new 10mm injection pump.. couple questions?
by
R.O.R-2.0
on 09 Jan, 2012 13:15
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so, i got a bosch VE pump for a peugeot 505TD.. its got LDA, manual stop lever, and a 10mm head/plunger..
part number 0 460 404 020.. only thing i can find online is that it is a peugeot pump, but i already knew that..
what sort of advance spring do they have? what type of governor? anything special about the pump, other than the 10mm plunger, and cool LDA assembly? whats up with the SUPER LONG delivery valves?
i KNOW i need to re-case the pump in a VW case, or take the 10mm plunger/springs/camplate from the pug pump and install them in a VW unit?
pics to come!
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#1
by
R.O.R-2.0
on 09 Jan, 2012 21:51
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awe, come on guys...
seriously? nobody knows ANYTHING about this pump?
23 views and not a single response??
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#2
by
R.O.R-2.0
on 09 Jan, 2012 22:14
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any reason why i cant just drill new holes in my bracket, and just bolt this pump up?
is it really that important that our pumps have 3 bolts up front holding them to the bracket? or would 2 suffice?
theres plenty of other vehicles that mount the pump with 2 bolts on the nose..
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#3
by
burn_your_money
on 09 Jan, 2012 23:26
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I don't see why you couldn't just drill holes in your bracket. That inner one will be a bugger to get at though.
It's a right hand rotation pump, but you already knew that.
Those look like normal AAZ delivery valves from here.
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#4
by
R.O.R-2.0
on 10 Jan, 2012 00:20
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I don't see why you couldn't just drill holes in your bracket. That inner one will be a bugger to get at though.
It's a right hand rotation pump, but you already knew that.
Those look like normal AAZ delivery valves from here.
yea, never seen an AAZ pump in person, so i wasnt sure if they were the same or not. should i swap in the 1.6 DV's, or keep the pug 2.3 DV's in the pump and bend my lines?
right hand rotation as in clockwise, correct? the PUG rotates the same direction as the VW.. i checked direction of rotation on my buddies 505 TD..
and i dont think it will be too bad getting at the inner bolt to tighten it, a flexible gear wrench should take care of it no problem.
thanks for clarifying that i can just drill new holes, because this is a supposed running pump, and i really didnt want to have to cannibalize it to build a different one..
and tyler, do you have any idea what governor spring setup this pump has? think its got the caged automotive style springs, or the big single truck/industrial spring?
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#5
by
burn_your_money
on 10 Jan, 2012 08:48
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Since it's off a car it's probably a very similar gov assembly to the one in a VW. I don't have access to any of Bosch's programs anymore so I can't check for sure.
I would swap in 1.6 DVs and see how it runs, unless you have spare lines that you don't mind ruining.
Yes, right hand as in clockwise.
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#6
by
R.O.R-2.0
on 10 Jan, 2012 10:29
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Since it's off a car it's probably a very similar gov assembly to the one in a VW. I don't have access to any of Bosch's programs anymore so I can't check for sure.
I would swap in 1.6 DVs and see how it runs, unless you have spare lines that you don't mind ruining.
Yes, right hand as in clockwise.
ok, thats what i was thinking.. i have PLENTY of 1.6N/A DVs, and NO EXTRA LINES.. so thats the ONLY logical option..
and i was 99% positive that this was the correct rotation pump for my engine.. thanks for clearing that up.
i went ahead and sucked it full of ATF, to break up some of the gunk. i just hope the seals are still OK, its been sitting for who knows how long in a box with nothing in it, just dry..
the pump turns over nice n smooth tho..
is there going to be any adverse side-effects from running a bigger pump? harder to time? less economy? more smoke?
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#7
by
theman53
on 10 Jan, 2012 10:46
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is there going to be any adverse side-effects from running a bigger pump? harder to time? less economy? more smoke?
Yes.
The cummins pump I have had a real narrow window of timing, there is more smoke, and I used more fuel with it in there. I also think that with all the timing I had to run it helped loosen the precup that fell.
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#8
by
R.O.R-2.0
on 10 Jan, 2012 10:54
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is there going to be any adverse side-effects from running a bigger pump? harder to time? less economy? more smoke?
Yes.
The cummins pump I have had a real narrow window of timing, there is more smoke, and I used more fuel with it in there. I also think that with all the timing I had to run it helped loosen the precup that fell.
my car runs good, maybe i should just put this on the shelf for a while?!?
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#9
by
MJF
on 10 Jan, 2012 11:16
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I've had a couple 10mm pumps made of Toyota pumps. FWD Audi got better mileage with it than with stock pump. No smoke or nothing else negative. Just more fuel and more power
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#10
by
burn_your_money
on 10 Jan, 2012 11:28
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the pump turns over nice n smooth tho..
That's a bad thing. It should be very notchy when turning it. 4 distinct notches to be exact.
You can throw the timing specs out the window because the different rotor will change everything. You will probably need less advance but it will depend on the characteristics of the head and rotor
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#11
by
theman53
on 10 Jan, 2012 11:37
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Giles told me for my 12mm bosch to time it between 1.20mm and 1.30mm, I would guess a 10mm to be in the 1.10 to 1.2 if things go somewhat linear.
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#12
by
R.O.R-2.0
on 10 Jan, 2012 14:19
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the pump turns over nice n smooth tho..
That's a bad thing. It should be very notchy when turning it. 4 distinct notches to be exact.
You can throw the timing specs out the window because the different rotor will change everything. You will probably need less advance but it will depend on the characteristics of the head and rotor
well, yea.. its notchy like a pump should be. you can feel the cam plate riding over the rollers, and the resistance from the springs.. i simply mean it doesnt bind up, or grind, or anything like that. i mean it turns over nice and smooth as in "as smooth as a good pump should be".. i dont mean that you can literally turn it 360* with no resistance. sorry for the mis-understanding. i also popped the timing plug out of it, and the plunger moves up and down like it should.
and what do you mean about the "characteristics of the head and rotor"?? the car it was in, also has 130bar injectors. could i be safe to assume that the PUG timing spec would be safe to use on my engine as a base point? im also running 130bar injectors at the moment. would i benefit any from using 155's with this pump?
also, theres no cold start advance on the pump.. thinking i should add one, correct?
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#13
by
R.O.R-2.0
on 10 Jan, 2012 14:42
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is there going to be any adverse side-effects from running a bigger pump? harder to time? less economy? more smoke?
Yes.
The cummins pump I have had a real narrow window of timing, there is more smoke, and I used more fuel with it in there. I also think that with all the timing I had to run it helped loosen the precup that fell.
well, can we really compare a 10mm Pug IDI pump to a 12mm Cummins DI pump? your 12mm pump prolly had a 4mm cam plate. i imagine my 10mm pump probably has the same 2.3mm cam plate that the stock VW pumps have. that should be the deciding factor for timing, i would think..
as for fuel consumption, how much did your economy go down with the 12mm pump?
a 12mm pump is HUGE on a VW btw..
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#14
by
R.O.R-2.0
on 10 Jan, 2012 14:44
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Wonder if maybe i should just call Giles and pick his brain about this pump? im sure he has had to have dealt with atleast one of these..