Brand Newbie here - working on a Land Speed Project (1.5L or less diesel).

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I checked into the diesel truck records class and they are capable of being beat. But____if you want to break a record, the vehicle has to meet all the safety regulations for doing so. Meaning full cage, fire suppression, seat and seat belts. I'm sure the list goes on. But if you want to run what you brung, then thats completely different. They have speed clubs. Just do that.
I would most defiantly want to break a record before it gets to high and before all you guys go and set new ones.

Go for it, and good luck.

[RadoTD]

I'm not the best for what engine parts fit what, but I'm good at playing with numbers


Just out of curiosity, I threw some numbers together to see what kind of power you'll need. Rolling resistance I googled and found on landracing.com forums. I guessed that was just tire to salt resistance, so I added the same for bearing/drivetrain friction.. not sure if that's accurate but it's a small amount of power anyway. CdA is sorta estimated off of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automobile_drag_coefficient , right around volvo 740 wagon. Thinking about it now, weight might be on the low side? But, an extra 500lbs is less than 3hp once it's rolling.



Basically, 130mph should be 140-150hp at the wheels. Certainly attainable from a sky-high boosted franken engine! I can send you that spreadsheet if you want as well and modify anything you think is off

[carrizog60]

you also have the 1.4d vw polo engine,dont know if anyone have messed with it and his hp capability

[theman53]

I don't know what is ideal as I stated earlier, only speculating. I did read that VW made our engines 23:1 or 23.5:1 not for performance but cold starts only. I would think no matter what engine, gas, TDI, IDI, there would be losses for compression. I just need to see a spec of what it is to believe it. I would think that 23:1 would not be the best for an IDI engine, but there should be a formula to find out what is the optimum. I would think it would have to be somewhere in the range of 17:1 and 23:1.

[Jetmugg]

Exciting stuff for sure.  I have to hurry off to my daughter's basketball game right now, but will check back later.  I would love to have a copy of that spreadsheet.  The current G class (2.0L) record is about 130 mph.  That might be "stage 2" for me, most likely with VW 1.9L Diesel power.  Right now, my focus is on the 105 mph record in the H class (1.5L) diesel category.

The VW Polo engine has been suggested (1.4L), but unfortunately we never got that engine in the USA, and importing from Europe looks prohibitively expensive.

Steve.

[RabbitJockey]

I realize the difference I don't think a lowered cr of 17:1 would be so bad tho performance pistons for gm idis are 18:1 and on a car that's used only for land speed records I don't see how it hurts going a bit lower

[RadoTD]

I saw a gas engine with no spark start on ether once!

I would remove the glow plugs for sure as that lowers compression where you want to, but if you have too much space between the head and piston, you won't burn the fuel as well with the air, particularly as you get further away from the precup opening. 17 or 18:1 shouldn't be too stupid low though!

I revised a copy of that spreadsheet and sent it out to Jetmugg, included fixing an error in my calculations. Mostly adding temperature and altitude compensation and road grade to that. If anyone else wants a copy, PM me your email and I'll send it out! Lower the rolling resistance and change to your local altitude and it'll give a good guesstimate of power to hold a certain speed.

[Jetmugg]

That spreadsheet is a great resource!!!   Plugging in the estimates for rolling resistance, aero drag, static weight, etc.  gets pretty close to the power that I had "noodled" that I would need.  The existing record is 105 mph.  I would like to raise it to 110 (at least on paper).  The spreadsheet says that 115 hp will be required to get there.  I was thinking that I would need somewhere in the range of 125-150 hp to make it happen.

I want to give the "Franken" setup a try, if I can collect all the right pieces.  1.6 Hydraulic blocks don't exactly grow on trees around here.  As long as I can find the right combination of block, head, crank, rods, and pistons, my intent is to build a 1.5 crank, rods, and pistons in a 1.6 TD hydraulic block with a 1.9 AAZ head, water-to-air intercooler, unknown (Mercedes?) turbo, gasser intake, and a water-to-oil cooler.  A modified injection pump will be needed (Giles?).  With that setup, I hope that I could build a minimum of 115 HP.  I would plan to keep the glow plugs in place.  I'm hoping that with a strong battery, fresh starter, and the correct IP timing, I will be able to build an engine that will start in reasonable temperatures (above 40F or so).

I know some local VW racers who have a chassis dyno connection.  I think that's the place to do the testing.

Exciting stuff, even if I don't have any of the parts yet.

Steve.

[theman53]

Maybe someone out there could "sponsor" you and send you a block. Around this forum there seem to be guys selling some blocks from time to time. I just found out that if you build a crate, not pallet, you can send it regular fedex. Maybe even someone wanting to help overseas could donate you that TDI 1.4 block. You maybe able to put out some feelers.

If you do go to a 1.5/aaz combo and I am not using my aaz head I would let you use it to see if it works or not. Then you could either keep it and buy me another or send it back. All I would want is to not have any cost in shipping and make sure I get a head back.

[Jetmugg]

TheMan:

That is a very generous offer, and one which I appreciate very much. That is a very attractive option. I would certainly be interested in partnering up with anyone who might be interested in such an effort, and particularly someone who might want to run their engine setup.

The idea has crossed my mind several times to seek out a partner/sponsor, particularly with respect to an engine program for this assault on the the existing diesel truck records.

Just FYI, the existing records are as follows:

H / Diesel Truck (1.016 - 1.523 Liters) = 105 mph
G / Diesel Truck (1.524 - 2.015 Liters) = 129 mph
F / Diesel Truck (2.016 - 3.014 Liters) = 131 mph
E / Diesel Truck (3.015 - 4.267 Liters) = 141 mph

Above that, the engine size starts to get pretty big for a vehicle the size of a Rampage.

I intend to build my roll cage, fire system, etc. to be legal up to 175 mph, although I doubt that I will ever see that kind of speed.

Steve.

[theman53]

I would think that the 1.5 to 2.0 liter record would be very easily broken by borrowing a TDI and having Malone tune the snot out of it.

[Jetmugg]

Yes, the G class record would be next on my list, most likely with TDI power.  In fact, that record may be "softer" than the H class record at 105 mph for 1.5 Liters, but I figure it's better to start at the bottom and work my way up.

In fact, the current H class record holder attempted to set both the H and G class records in 1 meet, but he couldn't get the engines swapped in time to go after the G record.

Steve.

[410]

Here's the link to vw's official 1.5l white paper.
http://home.comcast.net/~jakeru/15dsae.pdf
It mentions that a compression ratio of 16-1 to 18-1 is ideal for best power and fuel consumption even for an idi engine but starting and idling becomes a problem.  Lots of good info.

[R.O.R-2.0]

Here's the link to vw's official 1.5l white paper.
http://home.comcast.net/~jakeru/15dsae.pdf
It mentions that a compression ratio of 16-1 to 18-1 is ideal for best power and fuel consumption even for an idi engine but starting and idling becomes a problem.  Lots of good info.

sounds like some glow plug blanks, and a shot of ether is just what the 1.5/6/9 engine needs for a cold start.. 

maybe it will lope at idle with such low compression..

[Jetmugg]

I'm curious about the glow plug deletion.  This is something new to me.  I realize that removing the GP's would reduce compression a bit, but would it really be worthwhile to remove the GP's and just fill the holes with some plugs?

It seems to me that leaving the GP's in, for easier starting, would outweigh any potential performance benefit to be had by lowering the compression ratio even further.

Like I said, this is all new to me, so please feel free to set me straight.

Steve.