My no start issue, LOW COMPRESSION!!!!!! New diagnosis!!!!!!

[rabbitman]

The car is the '92 golf that won't start worth beans.

Yesterday I plugged it in until the top rad hose was really warm to the touch and it still didn't want to start. Finally after cranking forever the rpm got high enough and it fired up and ran PERFECT. This thing runs like a dream........

Pulled it in the shop and checked compression, the results are depressing.
Checked almost up to full temp.
#1: 330psi
#2  250
#3  265
#4  160

Its gotta be the rings since I just redid the valves. The cylinder walls looked nice, crosshatch were still visible.

Any chance dumping kerosene in the cylinders and soaking it will fix anything? I really don't feel like doing rings right now.

[rabbitman]

Do you think the rings are in there tight and not expanding?  Hence the solvent in hopes of breaking them free?  Kind of a two edged sword here.  They may come free but then they may really be loose and your compression would get worse. 

Being where you are kind of rules out thicker oil now doesn't it.  Could you get the pistons down in the cylinders and try some ATF?  That stuff has a lot of detergent in it.  Are you close to an oil change.  Someone on here mentioned that they run a quart of ATF for the last few hundred miles in there oil before changing it.  Perhaps that might help from the lower end.  But in all reality the tops are where the coke is at most times.

If you already have the head off then aren't you half way home on doing the repair?  Or are you stating the cross hatching in the cylinders from your memory when you did the valves?

Bummer, but a kerosene soak and ATF in oil combo might get some results.  Do let us know. 

[rabbitman]

Yup, the crosshatch is from memory. IIRC the PO also posted about the crosshatch of this engine too.

Yeah I read (maybe on this forum) about soaking rings in kerosene to free 'em up but it's been a while.

One reason I'm thinkin' they're stuck is 160 psi means a ring either broke or has something else wrong with it.

I'll try a leak down if I can find the fittings and see if it's rings or valves........

[rabbitman]

I don't have fittings for a leakdown so I put lots of B12 chemtool in the injector hole and let it soak for the day refilling them every hour or two.

Put it back together and it took forever to start, I had to use the block heater even indoors at 60F before it would start. I drove it enough to get it hot (IR thermometer showed 213F on the block!) and pulled the injectors back out and tested it fully hot.

#1: 220
#2: 280
#3: 260
#4: 250

So my previous low cylinder gained 90psi and my previous high cylinder lost 110psi. Before the soak I think the 330 cylinder was the one puffing smoke rings 'cause I could tell one cylinder was firing and now there's no smoke rings and they all fire pretty evenly.....just enough to make smoke and crank fast though .

I don't know why one cylinder lost compression but I now know that I'll be doing rings in the near future..........it's smokin blue anyways.

I'll keep you all updated as I progress.

[ORCoaster]

I thought it would go this way.  Some good, some bad,  but you now know what is needed and just think how great this baby will run when you are through with it.  I haven't had time to check my numbers on the cylinders on my engine but it sure turned easy by hand when it was cold for a few days in a row here.  Finally got to measure the static timing.  78 mm.  Ah, a bit retarded don't you think? 

[rabbitman]

Yeah 78mm is pretty bad haha.

So I'm looking at getting a ring groove cleaner since I'm tired of using screwdrivers and little files to get the carbon out.

Does anyone know what cutter sizes to use on these things? I don't have it apart yet or I'd check.

[81 vw pu]

Yeah 78mm is pretty bad haha.

So I'm looking at getting a ring groove cleaner since I'm tired of using screwdrivers and little files to get the carbon out.

Does anyone know what cutter sizes to use on these things? I don't have it apart yet or I'd check.

I have on occasion broke a ring in half and use the butt end to clean the ring grooves.

[rabbitman]

Yeah 78mm is pretty bad haha.

So I'm looking at getting a ring groove cleaner since I'm tired of using screwdrivers and little files to get the carbon out.

Does anyone know what cutter sizes to use on these things? I don't have it apart yet or I'd check.

I have on occasion broke a ring in half and use the butt end to clean the ring grooves.

Yeah somewhere I read that's a horrible thing to do but I've done it myself, I've never used a real groove cleaner but I like to think it's quicker and easier.

[ORCoaster]

I have used both and I really like the results of the proper tool.  I tend to twist the broken ring about too much and that ends up scratching the groove in not so pleasant ways.

I'd hit O'Riellys up for there equipment if it available.  My guess it that they will have a hand held part and an assortment of teeth or something to put in to get you to the proper size groove.  You basically buy the tool and get your money back when you return it.  No return then you just got a new tool.

Helps do the job and keep the clutter off the wall over the work bench.

Try it. 

[rabbitman]

I have used both and I really like the results of the proper tool.  I tend to twist the broken ring about too much and that ends up scratching the groove in not so pleasant ways.

I'd hit O'Riellys up for there equipment if it available.  My guess it that they will have a hand held part and an assortment of teeth or something to put in to get you to the proper size groove.  You basically buy the tool and get your money back when you return it.  No return then you just got a new tool.

Helps do the job and keep the clutter off the wall over the work bench.

Try it. 

That's what I'm trying to avoid is scratching anything, getting it clean faster is a plus too.

I don't have anywhere local I can rent from but I can buy it for $20-$35 depending on brand. Thanks for the reply.

[ORCoaster]

http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=26366.0  Check if anyone is willing to loan you one on this thread on this forum.  You may need to specifically ask for one.  I scanned the lists but didn't see one written out anywhere. 

For the prices you listed that may be the cost of shipping one way on something like that.  Keep looking.

[81 vw pu]

That's what I'm trying to avoid is scratching anything, getting it clean faster is a plus too.

I don't have anywhere local I can rent from but I can buy it for $20-$35 depending on brand. Thanks for the reply.

It is very easy to peel aluminum off/ scratch a piston even with a ring groove cleaner. Just go slow, new teeth cut fast!

[rabbitman]

Just so you guys know, this place: http://www.importrp.com/ is the place to go. I've bought from them before and talked to their customer service and have been very happy so far.

I placed my order online friday evening and on monday (closed on weekends) they let me add an item to to my cart. I have yet to here "it's against are policy".

And they speak actual English!!!!!

HG-$28, grant rings-$23, very cheap rering if you ask me. I have head studs so no worries there.

Is it recommended to change the rod bolts everytime?

[maxfax]

Is it recommended to change the rod bolts everytime?

That has been debated a couple times around here..  The official word is yes, replace them every time..  However I as well as others have reused them with no problems..   There has been an engine or two of my own I've reused them as many as three times with no issue..  Anymore though if it's something decent (aka had way too damned much money spent on it) I don't like to reuse them more than once.. If it's an engine I know nothing about, or has been tampered with in the past I replace them in those situations as well..

[belchfire]

It would be nice to re-use the head bolts again. Somebody's gotten rich off of all the sets I've bought. Many previous discussions say no,no,no. I believe them. Bottom line is, do you want to chance a blown gasket for a couple of bucks? The labor alone makes this a no brainer.