questions about brakes and glow plugs

[Grey_Smoke]

I have two questions, I have used the search and couldn't find anything.

My car started with small rotors on the front and drums on the back,  we changed the small rotors for larger rotors off of a mk3 tdi.  and the drums for disks of off and 90 (I think) mk2.  now when I press the brake pedal it goes to the floor the first time, and it is only marginally harder to turn the tires by hand when the brakes are pumped about three times the pedal stops going all the way to the floor, and it gets much harder to turn the tires by hand.  We have tried three different master cylinder, the original one from the car, the one the front disks came with, and a brand new one, all appeared to be the same size.  there was no difference be tween the two used ones and only a very small difference with the new one.  the rear axle is sitting on jack stands just behind the rotors, so it is the same as if it were on the ground. 

The glow plugs worked when we first started the car, the car wast started four of five times and then they just quite, they were being run without a fuse, between the relay and the plugs, but now there is no power getting to where the fuse would be.  I tried two other relays, after the original, and they made no difference. 

any thoughts?   

[vanagonturbo]

1. I assume you completely bled the brakes? Also, what diameter MC have you been using?

2. Cannot help unless you tell us what kind of car you have.

[Grey_Smoke]

1. yes, we have completely bled the brakes, the mc is a Meyle Products No. 100 611 we have not been able to find what diameters correspond to what part numbers, so I don't know.

2. it's in my sig, "86 Jetta Coupe TD"

[R.O.R-2.0]

I have two questions, I have used the search and couldn't find anything.

My car started with small rotors on the front and drums on the back,  we changed the small rotors for larger rotors off of a mk3 tdi.  and the drums for disks of off and 90 (I think) mk2.  now when I press the brake pedal it goes to the floor the first time, and it is only marginally harder to turn the tires by hand when the brakes are pumped about three times the pedal stops going all the way to the floor, and it gets much harder to turn the tires by hand.  We have tried three different master cylinder, the original one from the car, the one the front disks came with, and a brand new one, all appeared to be the same size.  there was no difference be tween the two used ones and only a very small difference with the new one.  the rear axle is sitting on jack stands just behind the rotors, so it is the same as if it were on the ground. 

The glow plugs worked when we first started the car, the car wast started four of five times and then they just quite, they were being run without a fuse, between the relay and the plugs, but now there is no power getting to where the fuse would be.  I tried two other relays, after the original, and they made no difference. 

any thoughts?   

you got air in the system somewhere, im gonna bet its in the back lines. does it have the prop valve on the back axle, or under the hood on the MC?

you need to make the prop valve think that the car has about 10 people in the car.. i always just zip-tied the valve open while bleeding the brakes..

that valve does not let all the air bleed from the rears unless manually manipulated tho..

[Grey_Smoke]

you need to make the prop valve think that the car has about 10 people in the car.. i always just zip-tied the valve open while bleeding the brakes..

that valve does not let all the air bleed from the rears unless manually manipulated tho..

I bet that is the problem, thanks.  We will try it tonight

[vanagonturbo]

2. Pull the relay and verify power at the large red wire going to the relay. There should be two large red wires. One has a white stripe and IIRC thats the one that goes to the fuse. You should have constant power at the big red wire. Also try grounding the temp sensor wire (blue/white?) with the relay in and the key on. This will trick the relay into thinking its really cold out and turn the glow plugs on. If that works, then the next step is to test the temp sensor..

[Grey_Smoke]

2. Pull the relay and verify power at the large red wire going to the relay. There should be two large red wires. One has a white stripe and IIRC thats the one that goes to the fuse. You should have constant power at the big red wire. Also try grounding the temp sensor wire (blue/white?) with the relay in and the key on. This will trick the relay into thinking its really cold out and turn the glow plugs on. If that works, then the next step is to test the temp sensor..

ok, so I pulled the relay, but couldn't get the test light in the slot so I pulled the fuse panel.  and this is what it looked like

When I tested the two red wires with a test-light it didn't light up.  the battery light in the cluster is on, and when i unplugged the outside wire, it went off.

I believe that the number 60 relay is the glow plugs, is this correct? 

[Grey_Smoke]

1. So I zip-tied the prop valve open, we got some more air, out of it, but not much, and it didn't make much of a difference at the pedal. 

2. I checked the turn signals this afternoon and they are not working either, could i have a larger problem?  The battery is fully charged, despite the charge light being on in the cluster. 

[vanagonturbo]

1. if you are sure there is no air left in the system, you should next check the freeplay in the pedal. If you slowly depress the pedal, it should be free of resistance (for the most part) until the pushrod moves about 5-8mm.

2. My mistake. I was thinking that your GPR was on a separate harness above the fusebox. Yes, the relay with the production control code 60 on it is the GPR. Although I did not intend for you to check for power at the red wires in the back of the fusebox, I guess its good that you did. How are your battery connections? One of those big red wires comes straight from the battery positive to the connection at the fusebox, so trace that wire down. Do you have a pic of the wire you are disconnecting that turns the battery light off? Also with these cars, the battery light will be on when the car is not running. Many times after starting the car, you may need to blip the throttle a little bit to excite the alternator.

[Grey_Smoke]

2. The battery connections are good, the car starts, there is just no glow plugs, or any other lights.  the when turn the battery light off, the battery low light in the cluster turned off when I unplugged the closest wire to the camera on the left.

[vanagonturbo]

2. Are you disconnecting the connectors when you are testing them? If so, test them with the connectors plugged into the fusebox.

[nathan_b]

you need to be more specific, you say "no lights work," then you say "the when this turn the battery light off, is the closest one to the camera on the left." which makes no sense,

but something is definitely up, because your car has a ce2 box, but definitely shouldn't be be ce2

[R.O.R-2.0]

you need to be more specific, you say "no lights work," then you say "the when this turn the battery light off, is the closest one to the camera on the left." which makes no sense,

but something is definitely up, because your car has a ce2 box, but definitely shouldn't be be ce2

OMFG.. just caught that actually, and how right you are!

wow.. thats crazy.. nothing VW was CE2 in 86.. it was all CE1, or PRE CE1..

[Grey_Smoke]

you need to be more specific, you say "no lights work," then you say "the when this turn the battery light off, is the closest one to the camera on the left." which makes no sense,

Ok, I fixed that, sorry.

but something is definitely up, because your car has a ce2 box, but definitely shouldn't be be ce2

what is the difference? do you have pics? will the ce2 work?

[R.O.R-2.0]

you need to be more specific, you say "no lights work," then you say "the when this turn the battery light off, is the closest one to the camera on the left." which makes no sense,

Ok, I fixed that, sorry.

but something is definitely up, because your car has a ce2 box, but definitely shouldn't be be ce2

what is the difference? do you have pics? will the ce2 work?

the difference is, it SHOULD NOT EVEN PLUG INTO THE WIRING.. CE2 wiring didnt start until 1990..

someone tweeker-ized your car bad..

wonder if its a diesel fuse box? probably not a chance being that its CE2..