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#15
by
wdkingery
on 02 Apr, 2011 19:47
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well, pouring ATF down the "out" banjo bolt effectively does nothing..
i wore the battery down getting nothing done.
i pushed a funnel down in that little hole, and it slowly ate a small amount of ATF.. i cracked a few metal fuel lines, and cranked and cranked. not a drop of ATF ever came out.
i even poured ATF down one fuel injector hole. didn't even attempt a fire.
priming IP FAIL
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#16
by
damac
on 02 Apr, 2011 20:48
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I like to use an air driven brake bleeder attached to an extra in bolt attached to the outside of the pump to get fuel pulled through the pump after its been run dry. Then you can hook things back up and leave the hard lines cracked, crank it over until it starts to come out, tighten, then get inside and try and get it to start. I just did this the other day again and once the car would stay running without throttle at the pedal, it then seems to take a few minutes to warm up and purge the last bits of air.
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#17
by
Quantum TD
on 02 Apr, 2011 22:47
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Fill the IP from the "OUT" bolt. Then, send external power to the fuel stop solenoid (the ONLY wire going to the pump). If you run a wire with alligator clips to the stop solenoid from the positive terminal, you should hear it click. If so, you're on the right track.
Next, make sure all the GPs are working.
Last thing, crack the unions on the injectors and crank it until fuel comes out. Even if the vanes are stuck on your pump, if the pump is full, it will send fuel to the injectors. Once you see the dribble of fuel from the lines, refill the pump (via the OUT bolt) and try to fire it off. If the GPs are good, it will fire, even with low compression on 1 or 2 cylinders. If it runs and then dies, you can bet the vanes on your feed pump (internal to the IP) are stuck from sitting. The pump will need to be torn down, cleaned, freed up, and resealed.
Blasty-blast.
P.S. Don't dog the kerosene soak. It works wonders. If even for a week, and crank the motor over by hand (so as not to blow out all the juices), and refill whenever you do. Your numbers should improve, ESPECIALLY given how nasty those injectors holes look.
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#18
by
wdkingery
on 03 Apr, 2011 15:31
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hey i wasn't knockin the kerosene idea! it was the first real response i seemed to have had.
moving on: i got the pig to start, had to hand feed her on a baby bottle for now (as i intend to replace the pump to pass inspection anyway) yay for me! i'm beginnin to think the compression gauge i bought from PROTHE was bad to begin with, as the little piece i bought from him to screw into the head in place of the injector actually
pushed thru one of my heat shields, and that was on the only cylinder i got to come up to spec PSI.. AND the pressure release button broke on the second use of the durn thing so .. i'm going to just say the gauge is bad and play like i have real compression (hey it did start!)
where can i get new injector heat shields? these damn things are less than five bucks, but by the time you hit checkout, you're in the thing for over $20 off the internet, and my local autozone or advance (or even VW dealer) isn't coming back with anything.
ideas?
and check out the ugliness i'm calling a floor pan (puke)
By
wdkingery at 2011-04-03
it's the ones like around this rail that i'm concerned with how i'll fix:
By
wdkingery at 2011-04-03
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#19
by
bajacalal
on 03 Apr, 2011 21:15
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If you want to liven it up a bit, let me know. There is a website just like this one with some really knowledgeable people.
1stgen.org
Trust me, if it exists on the internet, odds are I know about it.
I post on there and cumminsforum.com with the handle
greaseyote. I prefer the latter because it seems to get more replies, though maybe not as good... My plans include fixing all the minor things wrong with the truck and dumping the Getrag trans for a NV4500 unit. It's not the fastest vehicle on the road, but it's goes down the road just fine, it gets the job done and doesn't use a whole lot of fuel. I bought it to haul things around, impress people. So I'm pretty satisfied with it as is... a few performance ideas are in the works, mostly to the exhaust system but nothing too far from stock.
Sorry to hijack this thread btw.
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#20
by
wdkingery
on 10 Apr, 2011 15:48
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Well, i pop riveted the floors with new sheet metal, ordered and installed a new pump from
www.thedieselstore.com ; i paid $430 shipped, and they want my old core.
i did the valve lash as best i could with what limited shims were available.
i played hell gettin it to start, but it did.
it almost runs worse than it did before
lots of white smoke. harder to get started now. it's like she liked her sad almost-no valve clearances from before. likes the timing advance. found one injector loose? got it tightened back up, it came back loose, i put the hero on it, and it appears to be staying.. it's the one that had the dirty hole from the initial compression test. i've got the pump set at almost 1.00 mm; like .97. runs ok at times, likes to misfire. remove the valve cover tube, you get slight smoke.
but how did it get
worse?? it's obviously got one cylinder that isn't doing so well. battery has decided 2 pump primes were more than she could deal with.
forgot to shut the hood on the initial take off and almost lost my new windshield. did mangle the hood to hell; was even so lucky it left paint on the windshield but managed not to bust it (thank god for something going wrong-but-not-a-complete-loss-like-every-other-thing)
the one fuel injector that i had to tighten the @#%! out of is also apparently noisy. you can even feel the noise in the fuel injector line.. like it's tryin too hard. wouldn't it be a big white prayer from above if ya'll told me what that problem was and it went to runnin right???
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#21
by
Quantum TD
on 10 Apr, 2011 16:42
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Remind us again if you had the injectors rebuilt?
Pumps can wear in unison with the injectors. I'd get them rebuilt, or rebuild them myself. You will need to check the pop pressures though.
Did we ever get compression numbers?
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#22
by
wdkingery
on 10 Apr, 2011 16:59
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no, no rebuild on the injectors. the injectors were TOUGH AS NAILS to get out, so i think they were 26 years old.
compression... is a sore subject at this point. i got a gauge from prothe/hans .. and it broke on the second use. it wouldn't release cylinder pressure. and it pushed thru one heat shield. so i'm not sure if i ever got it tight. but 200/200/405/200 is about what i pulled with it.
i'm going to hopefully snake some injectors off a diesel in the junkyard tomorrow. and a starter as i can see i'm going to need one.
i read the vincewaldron.com on rebuilding them, but as far as calibrating them or pop testing them .. i'm not really having that ability so .. i'm not sure what to do there
the durn thing didn't smoke white when i started this ..... rebuild .... so after the pump, now it does smoke white. i have to prove to the court that it passes safety inspection (thanks school cop!) on wednesday, so i needed to get an IP because it was leaking fuel to pass .. so i know i kind of have the cart infront of the horse on this rebuild, but i didn't have time to re-ring the pistons before court, with the floors and the fuel leak present.
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#23
by
Baron VonZeppelin
on 10 Apr, 2011 21:36
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i'm going to hopefully snake some injectors off a diesel in the junkyard tomorrow. and a starter as i can see i'm going to need one.
i read the vincewaldron.com on rebuilding them, but as far as calibrating them or pop testing them .. i'm not really having that ability so .. i'm not sure what to do there
the durn thing didn't smoke white when i started this ..... rebuild .... so after the pump, now it does smoke white. i have to prove to the court that it passes safety inspection (thanks school cop!) on wednesday
Sounds like good things to try on the JYard parts.
If you wind up needing to refresh the injectors as per VWaldon write up - just go with it and don't worry for now about bench testing them.
If the white smoke smells like raw diesel fuel - you've got 1 or more cylinders not performing combustion. If you loosen the top nut on the injectors one at a time as it runs - its like pulling a spark plug wire off a gasser. It will show you which one(s) are the problem.
Short time frame on the court deal.
OucH !
Maybe they can grant a continuance / prolongment ?
Good Luck !
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#24
by
wdkingery
on 11 Apr, 2011 04:52
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you know i feel like the air should have purged i drove this thing for an hour.
today we junkyard, i'll let you know what i come back with!
thanks guys!
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#25
by
wdkingery
on 11 Apr, 2011 11:39
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so the junkyard values are in .. dismal.
found a damn near brand new MKI alternator ... plug was wrong. had to return it
got the four injectors and was able to steal a few valve shims.. yay for shim stock!
drivin home my radiator busted (FOR THE LOVE OF GOD)
will an MKI radiator fit in an MKII? can i make it work; i went back for the radiator, but was runnin out of time so i haven't seen if it will work.
the new injector made some difference on the smoke, but i dind't make it far enough to notice how much difference, and it was still misfiring.
anyone know of a good place to get injector nozzles? or do i have to replace that? can i just do the vince waldron on the injectors and be good? and he doesn't say about adjusting the pop values.. being they are 26+ years old, do i need to add or remove any shims?
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#26
by
Baron VonZeppelin
on 11 Apr, 2011 21:25
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What state - or country - are you in ?
If you're in the usa - eGermanparts.com is the only place left i know of that hasn't double/tripled the price of new Bosch nozzles.
About $15 each.
If you recondition your nozzles - and put everything back identical - they should be close enough to be fine. If you put New Nozzles - most times the pop pressure changes and needs calibration. Its all a roll of the dice. If you want the pop pressure tested - take them to a fuel shop afterwards. You can't test/calibrate/shim them properly yourself without special equipment.
Mk2 radiators are a lot wider across than Mk1.
You might could frankenstein one into place for tempo use.
If you have a diesel with factory A/C - you'll have to source a radiator from a diesel A/C car.
Non A/C i think you can use any kind of gasser radiator.
Prothe sells some new ones from like $35- up.
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#27
by
wdkingery
on 12 Apr, 2011 10:47
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hahahaha prothe sells them... mmhmm
ok! the diesel radiator is longer, and bigger, but that's cause it's going to get more heat from the A/C.. which i just removed. so i'm confident that the new, smaller, frankenstein'ed in radiator will be fine.
on to the jetta!
IT RUNS FINE! turns out the dial indicator read in INCHES, and not in MILLIMETERS!
so, not that ya'll care, but the one liner for the next guy with this problem is:
IF YOU HAD A BAD PUMP, PUT IN A NEW ONE, AND IT'S SMOKING WHITE LIKE HELL.. IT'S MAJORLY RETARDED, AND SO ARE YOU, BECAUSE YOU ARE READING THE GAUGE WRONG!
new cause for major white smoke/misfire: massively retarded pump timing
major thanks to Quantum TD, and especially Vince Waldron for his writeups at vincewaldron.com
now for the glorifying rattle can paint job i've been waiting to apply
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#28
by
8v-of-fury
on 12 Apr, 2011 17:03
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Lmfao. Awesome Saga!
Glad you got it all sorted out
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#29
by
wdkingery
on 12 Apr, 2011 18:58
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Lmfao. Awesome Saga!
Glad you got it all sorted out
hahahaha OMG dude if you read the entire saga from beginning to end it's a real tragedy! first i bent a brake pad and had low brakes that gave me the run around ... then the pump wouldn't time cause i was too dumb to work a dial indicator.. next thing up is going to be my alternator is giving me a fit .. it'll be some retardedness.. but the good news is i got FOURTY THREE miles per gallon on the way to school today! woot woot! just what i got in this mess over!