Author Topic: na to td conversion turbo coolant line questions  (Read 23939 times)

Reply #15March 20, 2011, 05:56:55 pm

RabbitJockey

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Re: na to td conversion turbo coolant line questions
« Reply #15 on: March 20, 2011, 05:56:55 pm »
like i suggested on fb i would use the coolant hoses that supply the oil cooler on to the turbo
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Reply #16March 20, 2011, 06:26:42 pm

bgbmxer

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Re: na to td conversion turbo coolant line questions
« Reply #16 on: March 20, 2011, 06:26:42 pm »
like i suggested on fb i would use the coolant hoses that supply the oil cooler on to the turbo

You will have to show me what your referring too

Reply #17March 20, 2011, 07:42:56 pm

RabbitJockey

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Re: na to td conversion turbo coolant line questions
« Reply #17 on: March 20, 2011, 07:42:56 pm »
i'll show you my hose then
01 Jetta TDI 100% stock daily
81 Rabbit:TDI-M ported head, Frank06 cam, PD intake, hybrid T3 turbo, Renault intercooler, Syl20 11mm pump, light weight fw, and yellow California Clutch clutch kit

Reply #18March 21, 2011, 05:05:02 am

Bugsy_malone 666

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Re: na to td conversion turbo coolant line questions
« Reply #18 on: March 21, 2011, 05:05:02 am »
With the water hook up, if you have a turbo to take off of something would it not be a good idea to see where its connected on that engine it came off?

you may find it does already hook up to the heater loop on the other engine.

Oil feed as mentioned you can just use a take off from the oil filter head which is M10x1 thread, the same as brake pipes(think thats what they should be on your proposed vehicle, it was only mk3 golfs where the Master cylinder had bigger pipes) you'll find alot of aircooled people just use a T piece off the oil pressure sender/switch hole to feed a turbo, the advantage they have is diesel turbos tend to suit aircooled engines a little better as they are lower reving I mean lets fact it, if its not going to cost you anything/much to install, its worth a try to see how it works.

If you design a manifold with something like a T25/28/3/4 standardized outlet you can always try a turbo and if it doesnt work look for something more suitable which might just bolt right on :)

the turbo dodges have the thermostat housing on the head and the coolant flows directly from there to the turbo then back to the the block. im unsure of the coolant flow in these engines so im unsure what will and wont work but i will be hooking it up to coolant.

the manifold is one of those universal 8 valve turbo headers ported out with a standard t3 flange and the intake is off of a gas engine my friend gave me. the exhaust is 2 1/4 the whole way out from the turbo the only restrictions i see are the turbo and the head. time will tell if it spools way late or not

See I wreckon by the sound of it, its a bit like the way that vw run the oil cooler as part of the block loop where coolant runs from the head out to the back of the water pump and the oil cooler runs in parallel with this pipe running head to pump (the block loop). So maybe do something like that, run it as part of a parallel pipe that runs head to block as then that way water should flow through it but wont restrict the flow of the system.

That certainlly does look like a huge turbo! the one I am thinking of putting on a 1.6NA is about half the size!

Reply #19March 21, 2011, 05:28:52 am

bgbmxer

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Re: na to td conversion turbo coolant line questions
« Reply #19 on: March 21, 2011, 05:28:52 am »

See I wreckon by the sound of it, its a bit like the way that vw run the oil cooler as part of the block loop where coolant runs from the head out to the back of the water pump and the oil cooler runs in parallel with this pipe running head to pump (the block loop). So maybe do something like that, run it as part of a parallel pipe that runs head to block as then that way water should flow through it but wont restrict the flow of the system.

That certainlly does look like a huge turbo! the one I am thinking of putting on a 1.6NA is about half the size!
[/quote]
 That turbo is a Garrett t3 off my Shelby charger which is very small actually. With no head work and free flowing exhaust it would sit there and spool. This is with a 2.2 liter. The mitsubishi turbo I'm using is alot smaller and has less power potential. I would like to make 120 or more horse out of this car and i don't see A turbo half that size doing it

Reply #20March 21, 2011, 08:51:05 am

R.O.R-2.0

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Re: na to td conversion turbo coolant line questions
« Reply #20 on: March 21, 2011, 08:51:05 am »
thats not a TD04H, thats a T3...

that one is going to be REALLY LAGGY..

the TD04H has alot smaller specs than that BIG T3..

even the T3 that came stock on these cars had smaller specs to it than this one.. your not running that t3 are you?

and like i said before, i would not even hook up water cooling unless you are going to have the proper after run pump to keep the coolant from boiling in the turbo after you shut the car off..

everything ive seen with water cooled turbos has a pump that keeps the coolant circulating for a period after the engine is shut off..
92 Jetta GLI - Black, 1.6D w/ GT2056V turbo..
86 GTI - 4 Door, Med Twilight Gray, Tow Machine..
86 Audi Coupe GT - Tornado Red, All Stock.. WRECKED.
89 Toyota 4Runner - Dark Grey Metallic, LIFTED!

Turbo: exhaust gasses go into the turbocharger and spin it, witchcraft happens and you go faster.

Reply #21March 21, 2011, 08:54:49 am

R.O.R-2.0

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Re: na to td conversion turbo coolant line questions
« Reply #21 on: March 21, 2011, 08:54:49 am »

See I wreckon by the sound of it, its a bit like the way that vw run the oil cooler as part of the block loop where coolant runs from the head out to the back of the water pump and the oil cooler runs in parallel with this pipe running head to pump (the block loop). So maybe do something like that, run it as part of a parallel pipe that runs head to block as then that way water should flow through it but wont restrict the flow of the system.

That certainlly does look like a huge turbo! the one I am thinking of putting on a 1.6NA is about half the size!
That turbo is a Garrett t3 off my Shelby charger which is very small actually. With no head work and free flowing exhaust it would sit there and spool. This is with a 2.2 liter. The mitsubishi turbo I'm using is alot smaller and has less power potential. I would like to make 120 or more horse out of this car and i don't see A turbo half that size doing it
[/quote]

a VNT is about the size of a K03.. i have one, it makes about 120hp.. and spools at about 1500 rpms.. and rocks your socks off!

you would be much happier with an actual diesel turbo, so you could have a complete powerband.. right now, the peak power of your engine is going to be long gone by the time the turbo is good and spooled up..
92 Jetta GLI - Black, 1.6D w/ GT2056V turbo..
86 GTI - 4 Door, Med Twilight Gray, Tow Machine..
86 Audi Coupe GT - Tornado Red, All Stock.. WRECKED.
89 Toyota 4Runner - Dark Grey Metallic, LIFTED!

Turbo: exhaust gasses go into the turbocharger and spin it, witchcraft happens and you go faster.

Reply #22March 21, 2011, 09:32:08 am

bgbmxer

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Re: na to td conversion turbo coolant line questions
« Reply #22 on: March 21, 2011, 09:32:08 am »
1 the turbo I'm using is a Mitsubishi turbo. It is not a t3 and not even close in size. Doesn't use the same cartridge wheels housings nothing is the same but the bolt pattern.

2 since I know about dodges i will speak on behalf of what I know about them. They Are all oil and water fed from the 80s to the present and any time the turbo is colder the better. None of them that I know of have any pump to circulate the coolant when you shut it off. I'm unsure about the holsets on the cummins but I know all the cars are water cooled. Even the vnts on the dodge cars was water cooled

3 it is a teo4 not the tdo4 the td04 Came on the Mitsubishi cars i believe the one I'm using is off of a dodge. And I believe but could be wrong that the te04 is a tiny bit smaller.

Reply #23March 21, 2011, 09:58:36 am

R.O.R-2.0

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Re: na to td conversion turbo coolant line questions
« Reply #23 on: March 21, 2011, 09:58:36 am »
1 the turbo I'm using is a Mitsubishi turbo. It is not a t3 and not even close in size. Doesn't use the same cartridge wheels housings nothing is the same but the bolt pattern.

2 since I know about dodges i will speak on behalf of what I know about them. They Are all oil and water fed from the 80s to the present and any time the turbo is colder the better. None of them that I know of have any pump to circulate the coolant when you shut it off. I'm unsure about the holsets on the cummins but I know all the cars are water cooled. Even the vnts on the dodge cars was water cooled

3 it is a teo4 not the tdo4 the td04 Came on the Mitsubishi cars i believe the one I'm using is off of a dodge. And I believe but could be wrong that the te04 is a tiny bit smaller.

1.) i have a T3, a TD04x, and a TE04H.. i know whats different.. why do you think im answering so much in this thread? (been there, done that)

2.) since i know about volkswagens, i will speak on behalf of what I know.. most VWs have air cooled turbos, but the ones that have watercooled turbos, also have an auxiliary water pump to circulate coolant..

3.)you are right, the tE04h is off the 2.2 chry.. the TD04x is off an eclipse or something.. i had to go look at my turbos to make sure..
92 Jetta GLI - Black, 1.6D w/ GT2056V turbo..
86 GTI - 4 Door, Med Twilight Gray, Tow Machine..
86 Audi Coupe GT - Tornado Red, All Stock.. WRECKED.
89 Toyota 4Runner - Dark Grey Metallic, LIFTED!

Turbo: exhaust gasses go into the turbocharger and spin it, witchcraft happens and you go faster.

Reply #24March 21, 2011, 10:08:44 am

bgbmxer

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Re: na to td conversion turbo coolant line questions
« Reply #24 on: March 21, 2011, 10:08:44 am »
Like I said have you tried this size turbo with other than stock parts. If you don't let it breathe it will never spool.

Reply #25March 21, 2011, 10:18:22 am

R.O.R-2.0

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Re: na to td conversion turbo coolant line questions
« Reply #25 on: March 21, 2011, 10:18:22 am »
i, PERSONALLY have never used one.. but the kid that had my car before me, had a td or te04 fabbed up on his other diesel.. and it sounded cool and all, but it never (not as good as my setup works atleast) worked right.. and define "other than stock parts"

my whole engine is stock. even the fuel pump is a n/a unit.. its a bone stock vanagon long block..

all i did was bolt on a VNT, a mk2 intake mani, and do a couple pump mods..

now my car has traction issues when the boost comes on. its soo cool having 15psi before 3000rpms..

its your project tho, if you feel like you just gotta have a turbo, no matter how far mis-matched to your engine it is, then so be it..

gotta remember, this engine is a 1.6L capable of about 5000 RPMs, the 2.2 it came off of was probably red-lined at 6500..

the 2.2 probably moves almost twice the air of the 1.6, just because it can physically turn more rpms..

you need to have enough exhaust going out to make it spool. but you already know this.. ("if you dont let it breathe, it will never spool")

just remember that you are dealing with:

1.) a 1.6L engine
2.) a diesel
3.) an engine with a head that DOES NOT breathe well at all..

good luck!
92 Jetta GLI - Black, 1.6D w/ GT2056V turbo..
86 GTI - 4 Door, Med Twilight Gray, Tow Machine..
86 Audi Coupe GT - Tornado Red, All Stock.. WRECKED.
89 Toyota 4Runner - Dark Grey Metallic, LIFTED!

Turbo: exhaust gasses go into the turbocharger and spin it, witchcraft happens and you go faster.

Reply #26March 21, 2011, 10:30:22 am

bgbmxer

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Re: na to td conversion turbo coolant line questions
« Reply #26 on: March 21, 2011, 10:30:22 am »
Turbo dodges redline at 7200 but peak power is usually around 4 grand on big turbo setups. The turbo dodge is a 8 valve non cross flow as well. They don't usually breathe for ***. And I'm debating porting the head while I have it off also.

And as for stock parts like stock exhaust mani and exhaust itself. These things are crazy restrictive

Reply #27March 21, 2011, 10:46:30 am

R.O.R-2.0

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Re: na to td conversion turbo coolant line questions
« Reply #27 on: March 21, 2011, 10:46:30 am »
my turbo/exhaust manifold is one piece.. and the VNT's flow surprisingly well.. even with their tiny little manifold..

when does the turbo start coming alive on a 2.2? about 2500 rpms? well that should make it come on at about 3500+ on a 1.6TD..

you dont want the turbo to spool late on a diesel, its going to be way out of its power range by the time you get the turbo spooled.

either way, just build it, and report back how laggy it is, or how wrong i am, either way works! i like it when people prove me wrong with hard evidence..
92 Jetta GLI - Black, 1.6D w/ GT2056V turbo..
86 GTI - 4 Door, Med Twilight Gray, Tow Machine..
86 Audi Coupe GT - Tornado Red, All Stock.. WRECKED.
89 Toyota 4Runner - Dark Grey Metallic, LIFTED!

Turbo: exhaust gasses go into the turbocharger and spin it, witchcraft happens and you go faster.

Reply #28March 21, 2011, 10:58:15 am

Bugsy_malone 666

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Re: na to td conversion turbo coolant line questions
« Reply #28 on: March 21, 2011, 10:58:15 am »
thats not a TD04H, thats a T3...

that one is going to be REALLY LAGGY..

the TD04H has alot smaller specs than that BIG T3..

even the T3 that came stock on these cars had smaller specs to it than this one.. your not running that t3 are you?

and like i said before, i would not even hook up water cooling unless you are going to have the proper after run pump to keep the coolant from boiling in the turbo after you shut the car off..

everything ive seen with water cooled turbos has a pump that keeps the coolant circulating for a period after the engine is shut off..

Thats a good point, I forgot all about the aux pumps on the turbo stuff. I know the 1.8T passats and stuff have their aux pumps on ebay all the time. The VR6 had an aux pump too if I remember rightly, although that wasnt turbo.

I think essentially if your going to use that big turbo then maybe look for a smaller primary to get you up to the secondary. You  can do a fair bit of guessing with turbos, but only from the point of looking at where a turbo is likely to spool up. For example a small turbo diesel turbo is going to probably reasonably well suited to a low reving aircooled engines. Putting a petrol turbo on the diesel lump will as suggested by ROR20 will mean higher spooling rpm, for example on a subaru impreza the Turbo kicks in around 3000rpm, on a Diesel thats not really going to be that useful, so What maybe it would be worth looking at is where the turbo spools up on the doner vehicles and applying that to your diesel at the very least, although getting the science involved its probably alot different.

Reply #29March 21, 2011, 11:09:15 am

bgbmxer

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Re: na to td conversion turbo coolant line questions
« Reply #29 on: March 21, 2011, 11:09:15 am »
That is a good idea to look on donor vehicles other than the difference in displacement and head flow etc. The Garrett on the charger was fully spooled by 2500 with no exhaust and that was at 14 psi