1985 jetta turbo diesel smokes white constantly until warmed up(videos inside)

[damac]

I would call myself a newbie when it comes to these cars.  But for a few  months now I have been cleaning up this car because everything looked to be original @ 200,000 miles.  The car started right up when I got it and drove great across the gears.  A slight puff of dark smoke when hammering it between gears, otherwise no smoke.

I have rebuilt all the suspension, pimped the glowplugs and done allot of cleanup.  I did not tear the engine down, but have now timed it with a new belt and tensioner along with another used pump, because my old one was leaking like crazy and main shaft was wobbling allot.

So the comparison based on how the car acted then and now is like night and day when it comes to the white smoke.  Right now it is taking a good 10 minutes idling on the driveway to warm up to the point where there is just light haze of white from the tailpipe at idle and lower revs, and it stops what I would call missing every few seconds.

The first video is a cold start at around 30 degrees.  Start it, then pull cold start lever.  A bit through this video you hear the idle raise which is me putting it up to around 900 if the tach is reading correctly

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BKL22rcnvs


This next video takes over where the first left off, a bit in you will hear me push the cold start lever in, the clacking noise goes a way a bit, and the smoke show starts all over again until it warms up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiN-la-Xmh4



So this is with me trying to get the smoke screw where I think it was best with the car fully warmed up and driven.  Also I timed the injection pump based on ear based on how the car was acting.  Smoke was worse more retarded and it didn't run right, so I rocked the pump forward until the loud bang bang noise, then backed off a tad with the cold start lever in.

I guess I am wondering is it possible that this pump is ok and that my injectors needed rebuilding since they are so old, even though it all appeared ok with the old pump?  The old setup ran so good, even though it leaked when running, even when sitting overnight, introducing little air bubbles

I think I will get them rebuilt regardless because I want to make this car right, then maybe revisit a new timing job for the hell of it and see what happens, if it could be that simple?

[Wayland]

Are you saying the problem started when you installed the other pump? Do you know the replacement pump is good? I'd try checking the timing with a dial gauge before changing anything else.

[Quantum TD]

Are you saying the problem started when you installed the other pump? Do you know the replacement pump is good? I'd try checking the timing with a dial gauge before changing anything else.

X2. Retarded timing will cause white smoke until warmed up.

[Mark(The Miser)UK]

This engine is not retarded IMO. Or at least not much. It started too easy from cold.
I think that it is one injector.   EDIT, or 2  

From cold, as quickly as possible [EDIT actually no hurry judging by the length of time it smoked for ]
 Whilst idling, with a little rag in one hand, slacken off each injector fuel line in turn until you find the one making the smoke.
Wear safty goggles if it makes you feel happier.
Having an assistant look out the back can help.
Increase revs if you need to...

[damac]

hmmm i just tried the cracking of each injector line and cannot say i could pinpoint any specific injector relieving the white smoke.

after about 10 minutes of warmup this morning @ 30 degrees, we took it for a drive for maybe 5 minutes, city traffic, cold start lever pushed in.

by the time we came back and parked the car and stabbed the throttle there was no visible smoke until just after full throttle where there was a little puff of black smoke that disappeared into the air almost right away.  car seems to run fine after warmed up, even the idle, without "missing"

also i noticed that after stabbing the throttle the revs are slightly hanging.  idle rpms still read <1000 on the tach.


the whole reason i messed with the pump timing by ear is because of how the car was acting.  i had to do it in order to get it to run ok when driving it around.

i am going to get my injectors rebuilt regardless because i want to keep the car and my others were original so i was told. 

Thanks!

[Mark(The Miser)UK]

See if it it has improved after leaving it for half a day or so. It may clear itself.
If the injectors are old; they may have a little crud in them.
Easily cleaned if stripped, using  a sharpened brass rod, and a single wire from a wire brush.
Oven cleaner melts the carbon away.
Having an injector tester is almost essential to test even new nozzles. A good investment.

[damac]

I just sent these out to be rebuilt and calibrated so I can start fresh with this car in a couple weeks

I noticed there was a pool of black diesel on the seal on #2 when I pulled it.  I assume this is the one that was messing up, what does that typically mean?  Could I have messed up my engine by cold starting a handfull of times in the past 2 weeks and driving it once it warmed up around the block?

Also what do the numbers on top of the injectors mean?  Not every one of mine has it but I have different numbered ones as well.  685,686,783.  I can't make any brand names or numbers out anywhere else on these injectors.

[Mark(The Miser)UK]

I just sent these out to be rebuilt and calibrated so I can start fresh with this car in a couple weeks

I noticed there was a pool of black diesel on the seal on #2 when I pulled it.  I assume this is the one that was messing up, what does that typically mean?  Could I have messed up my engine by cold starting a handfull of times in the past 2 weeks and driving it once it warmed up around the block?

Also what do the numbers on top of the injectors mean?  Not every one of mine has it but I have different numbered ones as well.  685,686,783.  I can't make any brand names or numbers out anywhere else on these injectors.

I think the numbers relate to the original contents of the injector ie spring/shim. In any event, with a change of nozzle, it is meaningless.
Some have original bar eg 170, 155, 130 also on. But not others. All bodies within a group are essentially identical.

The leaks behind the heat shield are common, but a sign that a total seal is not happening.
Sometimes the crud down the thread [most worrying] is from the regular failing of the leakoff pipes.

Thinking laterally, diesel going down the threads on  a perfectly sealing heatshield, could end up 'baking the pie' rather than just continuing bubbling up the threads.
Baking the pie probably takes longer in any event. It should have no bearing on injector/engine performance though.

 Of interest to me though is are thesee non sealing shields  from single use, or  multi use.
If one of my reused ones leak [I admit they have done, a few times shortly after reuse] I simply remove injector, check shield for damage, and if otherwise fine, I redistort, to a slightly greater degree, and reuse. 
We are talking 3 or 4 times out of 32 ie average one leak in 7 reuses.
If you are opening these for the first time then 1 in 4  for single use is worse than my data...
 Or am I not a maths teacher

[Toby]

You guys are kind of chasing your tails. It is clear from the video that the motor is carrying a hole, maybe 2 on start up. The smoke is unburned fuel. The first concern should be to check the glow plugs. Most likely you have a couple that are faulty. Then check compression. The easiest way to kill 2 birds with one stone is to pull the injectors to check the compression and turn on the key. You will see nice uniform curls of smoke coming out of the injector holes, if they are functioning properly. This will tell you not only whether they work, but if you have a GP that is slow to heat up.

If you find that the GPs are fine and compression is above VWs spec (390 psi warm, IIRC) then you need to pop test the injectors. None of this is rocket science, you just have to approach it systematically.

(BTW, it should be apparent that the compression needed to start well goes up as the temperature goes down. These things will still start at just over 225 psi in warm weather, although not well. As soon as fall comes they won't. Try plugging in the block heater and seeing how much it smokes on cold start.)