Author Topic: Question about a Giles pump upgrade  (Read 11197 times)

July 17, 2010, 07:46:03 pm

ventureforth

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Question about a Giles pump upgrade
« on: July 17, 2010, 07:46:03 pm »
I have an '82 1.6NA that I want to get a little more power out of.  Following the suggestions in the FAQ and plan on sending a pump to Giles.  I have two spare pumps in great condition, one from an '96 AAZ and one from an '81 1.6NA.  Is there any advantage to sending the turbo pump to Giles to use on my NA if I have no intention of turbo-ing it in the near of foreseeable future or adding nitrous or anything like that?

My plans are to do the 8V manifold upgrade, freer flowing exhaust, bigger piping on air-intake, and all the basic maintenance (i.e. new nozzles or injectors)...and the Giles pump, of course.

Thanks.

Reply #1July 17, 2010, 09:09:10 pm

Baron VonZeppelin

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Re: Question about a Giles pump upgrade
« Reply #1 on: July 17, 2010, 09:09:10 pm »
No realistic gain on using TD pump - especially if not Tbo'ing.
The TD pump adds extra fueling when boost calls for it.
Without boost, it would be like an NA pump in functions.

The 1.9 pump does deliver a little more fueling, but a Super Uber
Rebuild by Giles on the 81 or 82 NA pump will put you at the top of the chart for your application.

And a TD pump is an extra 150-200 on the finished invoice.
Spend that on the exhaust instead.
Good plans you have, will be a completely different car to drive afterwards.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2010, 09:11:02 pm by Baron VonZeppelin »

Reply #2July 18, 2010, 02:43:53 am

ventureforth

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Re: Question about a Giles pump upgrade
« Reply #2 on: July 18, 2010, 02:43:53 am »
I'm assuming there's not really much need for an EGT gauge considering the nominal power mods I'm doing.  I have the triple VDO cluster from a Cabby (volts, bar, oil temp).  I was thinking I would replace one of them with EGT, or add EGT as fourth in the useless cubby hole below the radio, but now I'm thinking it's overkill.

Thoughts?  Is there even really a need for the triple gauges?  I like the idea of at least having oil temp (always a good number to know).

How about head bolts/studs?  With the aforementioned mods, are ARPs necessary or am I good with what I have?  I believe I have the 12mm, though I know some of the '82s had 11mm.  When I replace the valve cover gasket tomorrow I'll double check.  11m are hex and 12mm are star pattern, right?  Are 12mm okay for my application?

Thanks, as always, to these forums for the patient help.

Reply #3July 18, 2010, 06:31:45 am

awpgti

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Re: Question about a Giles pump upgrade
« Reply #3 on: July 18, 2010, 06:31:45 am »
How much is the Giles pump rebuild??

Reply #4July 18, 2010, 07:38:32 am

burn_your_money

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Re: Question about a Giles pump upgrade
« Reply #4 on: July 18, 2010, 07:38:32 am »
NA is 750 cad TD is 950 CAD unless you are going over 20 psi (I think)

I don't think a NA needs head studs.

An EGT gauge would also be more of a novelty in my opinion. If it's smoking black you know you need to let off a bit.
Tyler

Reply #5July 18, 2010, 09:26:40 am

ventureforth

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Re: Question about a Giles pump upgrade
« Reply #5 on: July 18, 2010, 09:26:40 am »
750 is what I was quoted for the NA.  Don't know about the other flavors.

Agreed on the EGT.  How about the other gauges.  Is anything really worthwhile aside from oil temp?

So what's the most ideal donor for the upgraded exhaust manifold?  Early gasser, later diesel?  What should I be looking for?

Reply #6July 18, 2010, 09:37:41 am

burn_your_money

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Re: Question about a Giles pump upgrade
« Reply #6 on: July 18, 2010, 09:37:41 am »
Volts and water temp are the others that I would run.

Either get a GTI 8V 4:2:1 exhaust manifold and downpipe or just use your stock manifold but cut the bowl on the downpiep to fit a 2.xx" pipe. The manifold is a pretty good design, it's just the downpipe that sucks.
Tyler

Reply #7July 18, 2010, 09:49:43 am

Baron VonZeppelin

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Re: Question about a Giles pump upgrade
« Reply #7 on: July 18, 2010, 09:49:43 am »
I agree, EGT and HeadStuds would be way overkill on NoN-Turbo 12mm engine. An 11mm engine - i'd want the headstuds.

I'd do the triple gauge set - but you need another oil press sending unit for the gauge to work (or the one from that car).
I would put it on the butt end of the head - where lowest pressure reading would occur. Might need a T - if keeping stock cluster warnings intact - and use both senders.

Oil temp - idunno how or where they set up for that sender.
I would guess to put it on the oil filter housing where the high press oil sender is. Maybe T it in with existing sender also ?
Just throwing it all out there in case it helps.

You could also use the oil temp gauge as a water temp gauge.
It won't know the difference.

12mm on CR code 82 engine is a roll of the dice.
Like you mention, check headbolt pattern. But its not definitive due to alternatives that could have taken place in past. 12 point - triplesquare is what you'll hope for.

Also check crank bolt, whether 17mm fits - or 19mm fits.
If it's 19mm - its almost definitely 12mm.
If it's 17mm - its still possible a 12mm.
(Cranks will interchange - and it happens)

Also check on backside (firewall side) of block.
If it says 16D - more than likely 11mm
If it says 1.6D - more than likely 12mm

As you can see, its not 100% known until a headbolt comes out and is measured on these CR's. They were a running change during production.

I have an 82 CR 12mm engine.
Tripsquare headbolts / 19mm crankbolt / 1.6D on backside
It was cast in Brazil (?).

Giles musta went up 100 in the past year or so.
It was bound to happen sooner or later.
And exchange rate is almost even money right now too.
Or it was last week, anyhow.  ::)

Reply #8July 18, 2010, 09:53:30 am

Baron VonZeppelin

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Re: Question about a Giles pump upgrade
« Reply #8 on: July 18, 2010, 09:53:30 am »
Your exhaust manifold will need to come from a 1984 or older Mk1 series. You don't want Mk2 series 1985-newer.

The Mk2 series is diff where downpipe makes the exit.
Complicates the shifter linkage extremely when used on Mk1.

Reply #9July 18, 2010, 10:08:43 am

Rabbit on Roids

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Re: Question about a Giles pump upgrade
« Reply #9 on: July 18, 2010, 10:08:43 am »
my buddy has an ABA manifold on his rabbit pickup? it worked just fine? didnt hit anything?  ???

Reply #10July 18, 2010, 10:19:05 am

Baron VonZeppelin

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Re: Question about a Giles pump upgrade
« Reply #10 on: July 18, 2010, 10:19:05 am »
RoR, idunno what he's up to or what else he might have did.
There are some mods that can help with shift links.

But

I've got mk2 TD exhman/downpipe on my Truck via previous owner.
Relay shaft arm hits downpipe in 2nd and 4th - its worn a groove into the arm and still clinks a little.

The relay shaft bushings and relay ball assembly etc... are right next to exhaust pipe. The bushings were cooked and will probly need another set replaced before long.

I gotta mk1 Dpipe to replace with sometime sooner or later.

Maybe ABA exh man is a good / perfect upgrade.
I'm done at 1992 on VW stuff.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2010, 10:22:31 am by Baron VonZeppelin »

Reply #11July 18, 2010, 10:27:15 am

Baron VonZeppelin

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Re: Question about a Giles pump upgrade
« Reply #11 on: July 18, 2010, 10:27:15 am »
My truck is 1981 with 5 spd if that makes any matter on it.

Reply #12July 18, 2010, 10:34:36 am

Baron VonZeppelin

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Re: Question about a Giles pump upgrade
« Reply #12 on: July 18, 2010, 10:34:36 am »
Ventureforth, i think we all are taking for granted you are using a 1982 Rabbit/Jetta/Truck body.

Just to clarify - What type of body and what speed tranny are you using ?

Reply #13July 18, 2010, 11:03:54 am

Rabbit on Roids

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Re: Question about a Giles pump upgrade
« Reply #13 on: July 18, 2010, 11:03:54 am »
you have to use a mk1 special downpipe tho..

Reply #14July 18, 2010, 12:56:58 pm

745 turbogreasel

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Re: Question about a Giles pump upgrade
« Reply #14 on: July 18, 2010, 12:56:58 pm »
I'm assuming there's not really much need for an EGT gauge considering the nominal power mods I'm doing.  I have the triple VDO cluster from a Cabby (volts, bar, oil temp).  I was thinking I would replace one of them with EGT, or add EGT as fourth in the useless cubby hole below the radio, but now I'm thinking it's overkill.
EGT is the best gauge to have when everything is working, it helps you pick the best gear and speed.
Thoughts?  Is there even really a need for the triple gauges?  I like the idea of at least having oil temp (always a good number to know).
A diesel without a volt gauge is  a stranded event waiting to happen.  The others won't hurt anything.

How about head bolts/studs?  With the aforementioned mods, are ARPs necessary or am I good with what I have?  I believe I have the 12mm, though I know some of the '82s had 11mm.  When I replace the valve cover gasket tomorrow I'll double check.  11m are hex and 12mm are star pattern, right?  Are 12mm okay for my application?
If your HG comes off twice, studs cost less than stretch  bolts.  it will fail, but i8f it aint broke, don't fix it yet.
Thanks, as always, to these forums for the patient help.