1984 Jetta , TDI WE MUST! (1.9 AHU M-TDI)

[libbydiesel]

Seems like all M.Tdi users and abusers would need to do dial gauge timing.
Could you find out the spec for 1Z/AHU from tdiclub.com ?

You can sorta find out a plunger lift setting from an eTDI but you must bear in mind that the computer adjusts the timing on the fly.  Any baseline dial indicator reading off an eTDI will just tell you that the timing is within the range of what the computer can adjust (provided it's not tossing a code).  Best way IMO to find a proper spec is to use a dyno repeatedly and find where the setting where power peaks.  One could probably do a decent job of it using a smart phone and dyno app.

[410]

I found I had to set my mtdi 1.2mm to 1.4mm to get it to run right.  I had originally set it to .9mm and I could barely get it started and would smoke like crazy when running.  I did most of my adjusting by feel and how it sounded.  The bigger the pump head and the bigger the injectors the more sensitive it got to timing.  Just the slightest change would make all the difference.

.7mm would be a good spec for an e-tdi but not enough static advance for a mtdi.

On another note, the end caps on the pump head are interchangeable so you can swap a cap from a 9mm pump head to your tdi head and check your timing.

[8v-of-fury]

If someone is a serious potential purchaser, then PM.

We will be in touch my good sir.

Next issue is the pre-set tensioner was overset by last technician.
Wondering if the computer will be able to re-compensate enough on its own when i put the new belt and new tensioner with correct setting.

I'm guessing they didn't know about the pre-set marks alignment on the tensioner ..... ? I'll post a pic after while.

Wuh-oh, what is this you speak of? Nearly two years of research and I missed something!? Blasphemy. Do tell, I have it in and running so maybe i lucked out and got it correct???

Best way IMO to find a proper spec is to use a dyno repeatedly and find where the setting where power peaks.  One could probably do a decent job of it using a smart phone and dyno app.

Why you so smart! This sounds like a good idea, and probably better than any set digit anyhow. Would you just use an acceleration app that tells you 0-60 times? or something along those lines?

I found I had to set my mtdi 1.2mm to 1.4mm to get it to run right.  I had originally set it to .9mm and I could barely get it started and would smoke like crazy when running.  I did most of my adjusting by feel and how it sounded.  The bigger the pump head and the bigger the injectors the more sensitive it got to timing.  Just the slightest change would make all the difference.

.7mm would be a good spec for an e-tdi but not enough static advance for a mtdi.

On another note, the end caps on the pump head are interchangeable so you can swap a cap from a 9mm pump head to your tdi head and check your timing.

Well she starts up and runs great even around 0c with no glow whatsoever.. So I must be somewhat close to a good setting. I don't hear any of the old diesel clatter that I did with the IDI either.. The end cap information would have been useful a couple days ago 410.. LOL! If and when I ever have the pump back off, or I build another, I'll remember this for the future .

Pre M-TDI;



Post M-TDI;



Only picture I have from the actual swap.. there is a reason I got it done in 6 hours ok people! lol. I didn't frig around.



Pretty much 96% finished in this next shot. Just to tidy the wiring up that was a mess from before anyway, add the manual boost controller, and get a boost gauge and SHES GOLDEN! Air filter will be getting a thin aluminum surround fabricated, to allow it to draw its air from down under the washer bottle. and not get road gunk from the belt on it.

ps. You know you love the ABS piping inter-cooler delete It works ok, and it cost me like $4.. This is an extreme budget build.




400 Liters of free fuel and I got the drums for free too. Paid $100 total with shipping for this air powered drum pump, something like 20 Liters per minute? it flows real quick through the nearly 1" outlet. This is my introduction to WMO .



Video of it purring away Love the turbo at idle .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OeLP_OaT2gA&context=C39a8f52ADOEgsToPDskKOZzD-Gyz5hOZJZJrP3ZuS

[Baron VonZeppelin]

Really appreciate you guys and your knowledge sharing - so much.

Excellent tip on exchanging the end caps !
But as soon after i made last post - i went and made an adapter from an old Mk1 coolant sensor like Vince's suggestion in the thread that Max linked.

I'ma be full-on-the-ready in the morning.

Will update tomorrow night on what the existing E.TDI spec comes out to be.
Will spec it before pulling belt - just for the knowing and factoid.

[410]

Watch out with your abs piping.  The air is so hot coming out of the turbo that it can melt the abs.  You might get away with it for the winter but come summer time the inside might start melting and possibly get ingested by the engine.  I've seen it first hand.  I assume it's only a temp thing until you get an intercooler figured out.

[8v-of-fury]

It is temporary for sure, and I will not be boosting the crap out of it until I get an inter cooler anyway.. so I feel I will be ok for now. The stock IC pipes were ABS from factory and they held up for 430k on this engine.

I think I have read somewhere ABS is fairly heat resistant, up to quite a temperature.

[Baron VonZeppelin]

8V , i wasn't letting your question blow by about the tensioner.
I needed to D/L some pix to tinypic to post first.
I've got turtlecharged internet and it takes me a while to do anything.

First pic is borrowed from tdiclub A3 timing belt tutorial.
These tensioners are way more deluxe than our A1 A2 stuff.
Have a pre-set tension spec built into them - you line up the notch with the groove. Hold it steady and tighten.



On this car (phone camera) - it appears last guy not only overtightened it - he pegged it to the limit. sob
Belt appears to be low mileage (maybe 15-20k tops)
Hopefully not much or too much wear placed on bushings.
Will know more tomorrow.

{ EdiT } [i should have rotated this pic before posting it. it needs to be turned about 90* to the left to be closer to actual appearance in parameters] 




I'll test existing setting tension as it is.
Then test it reset proper.
Then test it after new belt/tensioner/roller.
Just for more factoids.
A1 A2 is 12-13 units


Make you one of these adapters.
Its almost like its in the design for it to be converted into an adapter.
Even inside the bottom its concaved to a point like a ready-made center punching for the drill bit. I stepped up bits about 6 times from 2mm to 6.5mm then ran a tap through it.
The interior body requires no drilling/boring.

[8v-of-fury]

Hmm, I did not know there was a spec on the A3 tensioners. I definitely did not torque it down like mad, I did the whole 1/4 turn on the belt like I have always for the 1.6's. And then the added roller above the pump adds a little bit more tension.. So I think I lucked out .

[libbydiesel]

8v, that ABS will melt at stock boost pressure.  I have seen it firsthand.  The stock pipes are not the type ABS you get in the plumbing section at home depot.

There are a bunch of various apps I've seen for measuring hp/torque.  Google is your friend on that.

I use a snap-on diesel pulse adapter and set the pumps to 12-14° btdc at idle.  That method sets the start of injection accurately while taking into consideration injector break pressure and pump wear, etc... and is faster and easier than the dial indicator.  I haven't measured the plunger lift on a stock AHU camplate or with the stock 10mm plunger.  I have measured the TDC plunger lift for that setting with the 12mm plunger and cummins camplate and it works out to 1.40-1.50mm.

Also, you need to remove the cold start lever from the pump or it will disassemble itself all on its own.  The sharper DI vibrations will cause the circlip to fall off and it will fall apart at the most inopportune time.

[libbydiesel]

BVZ did you check that tensioner with the cam sprocket loose on the cam? 

Regardless, belt tension won't affect timing of cam or pump provided they were set correctly with the tension/slack loaded the direction of being driven by the crank.

[8v-of-fury]

8v, that ABS will melt at stock boost pressure.  I have seen it firsthand.  The stock pipes are not the type ABS you get in the plumbing section at home depot.

Well its a good thing I didn't spend to much on it then eh..

What shall I do to resolve this problem? How come the rubber couplings do not melt?

Well now that I have it completely set out in the ABS, I guess I can pop it off and have a metal one made up EH!? I have  successfully made myself a jig Always a positive.

[Baron VonZeppelin]

BVZ did you check that tensioner with the cam sprocket loose on the cam? 

Nope.
Everything is still untouched as found -

I made it up to point of where crank pulley and lower timing cover are next things to come off. And stopped for the night - in hopes of more data/facts about initial timing spec.

Got lucky with some spec info, and tip on making an 8X10 adapter.

I just want the factoids and be able to compare/verify actual findings with them. Baselines etc ..

Libby or anyone, do you know if they specify a belt tension spec in units for A3 TDI - Like they do for A1/A2 1.6 ?

[CRSMP5]

i agree sir libby.. can only take the landy pump as a "core" as you have no idea if it works or not.. its a gamble.. but vs sending 2 pumps off to others for 1000$+ to make you one... you can sell the 2 you have... and if required at that point will cost less.. 

but i am glad to hear your 1k option.. as well that is a viable option.. and we need them...

what i want to see is one of you pump guys cracking open a landy pump.. and see why out of the box they produce lots of hp.. vs rumor 90 or less hp from the franken pumps..

[libbydiesel]

BVZ, the spec is to tension the tensioner with the cam sprocket able to turn.  This tensions the belt all the way from crank through cam through injection pump (which can also turn) and back to the other side of the crank.  When the cam sprocket is snugged up it changes the alignment of the tensioner.  The alignment of your tensioner looks correct.  Regardless, the amount of tension on the belt won't change the timing of a running engine which has the crank driving the pump and cam and all the slack (or lack) in the tensioner area anyway, provided the cam and pump timing were set only turning the crank clockwise and keeping the belt loaded in the same way it is when the engine is running.  I'm not aware of a tension spec given in units.

CRSMP5, to be clear, at this point I don't require any other pumps to be sacrificed.  I haven't pulled apart the rover pump but certainly have ideas as to why they would produce more power than franken pumps.  That said, the pumps I have available are not a limiting factor with power and have the ability to produce well above stock power.  The limiting factors would be the amount of air you could cram in, the amount of fuel the injectors could flow, the amount of power the clutch cand trans could handle and the actual power that the engine can handle without self-destructing.  The pump would not be the limiting factor.   

8v, the ABS probably won't self-destruct dramatically but rather gradually deform and your clamps will keep getting loose and the ends pop off.  Get the right stuff - silicone couplers and aluminum tubing and install the intercooler.  Bead the connections.  It's worth the $150 in parts to avoid the issues.

[8v-of-fury]

8v, the ABS probably won't self-destruct dramatically but rather gradually deform and your clamps will keep getting loose and the ends pop off.  Get the right stuff - silicone couplers and aluminum tubing and install the intercooler.  Bead the connections.  It's worth the $150 in parts to avoid the issues.

Yes, I agree. Thank-you for the advice . It is merely a get it running and driving right now solution. After all it is my daily driver that I have done this too.

My next issue on the chopping block is the serpentine belt.. I added the water pump to the serpentine belt with aid of a vr6 pulley. However to do so, I had to grind down a lip on the crank pulley a few thou, and use some washers to space the pulley out so the belt would track correctly. I used a short belt for my mock up with the engine on the ground, and life was good. But now that I have it running I feel the belt is too short and putting too much strain on the alternators bushings.

however running too much longer of a belt is going to make the tensioner bring the belt down and touch the top of the water pump pulley. I think I am using roughly 41" belt right now..