1984 Jetta , TDI WE MUST! (1.9 AHU M-TDI)

[srgtlord]

Hmmmm this M-TDI pump conversionsounds more plausable now

[410]

Good job man.  I knew you could get that pump working too.  I take it you didn't modify the governor lever?

[R.O.R-2.0]

now that it runs, start looking for replacement 020 trannies.. that TDI will kill one in short order.. guarantee it.

maybe not.. idk.. we will see whos right by next year this time!

[8v-of-fury]

I do have plans to get the 02A in there, so no worries. I got four more 020's .

BVZ, the initial drive was probably about 20hp lmao. Pump still needs tweaking for sure and the turbo was not hooked up yet. The hose i was gonna use didn't work out for me. I am going to be running it sans inter-cooler for the initial part of my swap, to ease with headaches for the time being. So it was a naturally aspirated 1.9 DI still pushing a turbine for restriction, bummer on power! lol Thank-you for the SALUTE my friend, it has been one hell of an awesome adventure.

410, Without your help buddy it wouldn't have been thinkable. You answered about a trillion of my questions with your superb knowledge of these pumps. I owe you a cold Kokanee good sir.

k3vo, Naw man, be cool. There been plenty run the 020 behind high torque motors, in heavier cars. I dont drop clutches, or do burnouts .

[Baron VonZeppelin]

Still real happy and xited for you - looking forward to more updates on further progress with the tune.

Between my good friend just buying a nice 98 AHU Jetta, and what you've done on your M. swap - i'm becoming a little more interested in TDI than before.

My brain rattled a flashback of a 96-98 Passat TDI i ran across this past summer at a guy's house my mother bought a travel trailer from. Chatted briefly about it due to it being VW Diesel - but i don't like big pig Passats - and had no desire for electronic TDI stuff.
Or $1000-2000 M.TDI inj pumps.

It either wasn't running or not running right iirc - didn't push for any details and made no offer or effort at all.
Didn't even open a door or pop the hood. LoL

I might go back and check into it.

You changed directions a lot.
There is obviously a lot of info and dialogue missing here.
Do you have links to other threads on other sites you exercised along the way about the ins and outs ?

I've got some questions too .... 

[Baron VonZeppelin]

Question #1 -- open to all comers in the know.

You said your dial gauge adapter wouldn't fit the TDI pump head.

Can a faktry stock AHU TDI (98 Jetta) Inj Pump be fine tuned/timed with a dial indicator - just needing a different adapter than what we use on IDI ?

As in - set/verify Injection Timing mechanically - versus VagCom.

(and any specs on thread size needed for TDI hole)

[CRSMP5]

the rover pump resolves 1-2k pumps for tdi-m... 2-300ish.. almost direct fit and such..

[8v-of-fury]

You changed directions a lot.
There is obviously a lot of info and dialogue missing here.
Do you have links to other threads on other sites you exercised along the way about the ins and outs ?

I've got some questions too .... 

Question #1 -- open to all comers in the know.

You said your dial gauge adapter wouldn't fit the TDI pump head.

Can a faktry stock AHU TDI (98 Jetta) Inj Pump be fine tuned/timed with a dial indicator - just needing a different adapter than what we use on IDI ?

As in - set/verify Injection Timing mechanically - versus VagCom.

(and any specs on thread size needed for TDI hole)

Yes, I did change directions a whole bunch of times.. Which I am horribly sorry for. BUT it was needed to fully wrap ones head around how EVERY SINGLE PIECE was to work. lol.

These are some other threads I had with other sites, sadly they too are fragments of my progress.. with many jumps to different directions. When I get it all buttoned up perhaps I will edit this one, and link the other two to it.

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4976461-Mk1-TDI-O2A-swap

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=321991

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=310270&page=2

Yes the dial gauge adapter that screws in to the small plug in between the four injection lines on the pump is too small, the thread in the  10mm DI head is larger, but appears to be the same thread.. probably the next size up?

Yes the AHU pump CAN be tuned in the exact fashion as we do on our IDI.. But I see no reason to, as the computer can change all the timing values at any given time by itself. All the parts are there for the gauge to physically follow the plunger in its movement. However upon thinking about it, it almost seems to me that the AHU pumps may be set initially by dial gauge.. and then fine tuned with VagCom, else why would they have the ability to put a gauge in the end of them right?

Now I realize I did change directions WAY TOO MUCH. However where I ended up is fairly simple . I used a 1.6 pump, a 1.6 transmission and 210mm clutch setup, a vr6 water pump pulley, and a mk1 gas passenger side motor mount so I could retain the AHU pump mount. The front, rear, and driver side mounts are all stock mk1 pieces, gas or diesel.

I have what I believe to be the easiest way to swap a 1.9 1Z/AHU TDI engine in to an mk1 or mk2. Mk2 being even easier, because you could use the mk3 mounts that came on the motor then. So even less work to do.

CRSMP5, I do believe that will be my next endeavor After I get everything else buttoned up and tidy, I'll be looking in to one for sure. Perhaps if you have literature as to what you have done to yours, ie. build thread or what have you, you could link it in here for future reading?

[Baron VonZeppelin]

No doubt about it 8V
You definitely formed the easiest cheapest quickest simplest mechanicalist 1Z/AHU Mk1 Mk2 swap imaginable. ^5

I understood while reading why most of the direction changes were happening. But right at the end you booted from piggybacking CE2 box and using electronics - to converting a 1.6TD pump into a M.TDI

i missed that part of the story and the specifics that brought that into the picture - lol

Guess that was a last hour revelation.
And what brought it together to go forth at this time.
Also the part i'm most interested about .... 

And the Rover pump too. As a side bar prospect.

I'd want to do the same thing you did if i did it on Mk1 or Mk2.
Fully mechanical completely simplistic and reuse as much existing as possible.
Even sans I/C to begin with were my thoughts too.

[Baron VonZeppelin]

Yes the AHU pump CAN be tuned in the exact fashion as we do on our IDI.. But I see no reason to, as the computer can change all the timing values at any given time by itself. All the parts are there for the gauge to physically follow the plunger in its movement. However upon thinking about it, it almost seems to me that the AHU pumps may be set initially by dial gauge.. and then fine tuned with VagCom, else why would they have the ability to put a gauge in the end of them right?

I'm going to do the timing belt, bring all maintenance to fresh start, and some misc... on my friends new 98 TDI. Starting on it either Tuesday or Wednesday. I don't have VagCom or know anyone locally who does.

Would like to know (or feel like i know) that the initial timing is back spot on after the belt job - via dial indicator - if that were an option. Your postings make me think that it is. I am about as anal on things as my tools will allow - if they can take me there - i'll go.

This will be my first TDI to work on.
Have not even taken the engine cover off yet to eyeball anything.

Later on i could travel to another town where there are some known VagCom'ers. Want to do the EGR reduction trick via VagCom at minimum anyhow.

Just guessing .... the initial injection spec is around same as TD
Any input from anyone ??

I'll test it first thing right off before i touch the belt - and see where it stands - if i can source an adapter for my adapter. Its probably going to be a lil low as is due to age/stretch of belt - as a guess.

[CRSMP5]

never tried dial indicator on a tdi.. i use vag-com

i gave you link a few pages back.. its like fitting a alh pump on a ahu.. then a gov mod, some throttle cable mounts/manipulations and making up the rear mount.. my inital pump timing is 118... and has no advance cable.. it is really easy... now since i could not score the ALH pully/hub set up i had the AHU pully modded like a gasser adjustable cam gear.. $100 machine shop simplicity.. which eliminated shimming the pump and such.. i actually think ill get another pully modded for my 1.6td never have to turn the pump again..

[libbydiesel]

the rover pump resolves 1-2k pumps for tdi-m... 2-300ish.. almost direct fit and such..

Bear in mind that it is an apples to oranges comparison.  Most $1000+ mTDI pumps are either rebuilt or brand new.  A rover pump @ $200-300 will most likely be a used pump of relatively unknown condition.  If you consider the cost of rebuilding/dialing in a rover pump plus the initial $2-300, it will cost more than the $1000 one.

I am currently building and selling Brand New Bosch full aneroid mTDI pumps for $1000 with all the bells and whistles.  12mm plunger, 20mm shaft, proper advance, governed to 5,000 rpms, installed, tested and tuned.  Definitely considerably more torque/hp than stock e-TDI.  If someone is a serious potential purchaser, then PM.

[Baron VonZeppelin]

Libby that sounds unbeatable, for SURE.
Thanks for the info on that.

:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

8V, i couldn't source anything locally to adapt from 8mm to 10mm today.
But here is the needed item - will do 8 - 10 - 12 .
Looks like about $20 to the door.
My adapter isn't the most civilized anyway - i'll be going for one, soon.

Seems like all M.Tdi users and abusers would need to do dial gauge timing.
Could you find out the spec for 1Z/AHU from tdiclub.com ?
I'm not a member yet

http://www.ebay.com/itm/VW-Bosch-VE-Fuel-Injection-Pump-Adapter-Timing-Tool-/400211393244?pt=Motors_Automotive_Tools&vxp=mtr&hash=item5d2e753adc

and

http://www.ebay.com/itm/VW-Audi-Diesel-Bosch-VE-Fuel-Injection-Pump-Timing-Tool-/260960128660?pt=Motors_Automotive_Tools&vxp=mtr&hash=item3cc26f8e94

[maxfax]

Ya know, I think Burnyourmoney had a thread about tuning TDI pumps with a dial indicator some time ago (years I think).. I don't exactly remember all the content, nor could I find it in a search..  

Edit:

Okay it wasn't Tyler, but here is the thread I was thinking of: http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=22004.0

[Baron VonZeppelin]

Many many thanks for looking that up Max. :beer:

But damm that sounds awful awful low
0.70mm +/- .05

Maybe an affluent TDI'er could brief us on that spec - and why its low

The "make-your-own" 8mm-10mm adapter from an old temp sender is something i might try. Would like to get a reading from this car before i pull the TBelt tomorrow.

Next issue is the pre-set tensioner was overset by last technician.
Wondering if the computer will be able to re-compensate enough on its own when i put the new belt and new tensioner with correct setting.

I'm guessing they didn't know about the pre-set marks alignment on the tensioner ..... ? I'll post a pic after while.