best Turbo

[vwmike]

What sort of boost level are you looking for and at what RPM?

[T-hane]

as of now i dont need much boost but i would like too run lots of boost in the future.  I would like to do my turbo setup now and run minimal boost untill the major engine work comes.  As i said before i want a good all around turbo.

[935racer]

Get  garret t3, the stock one for the 1.6's and get a t4 compressor wheel and housing, there are a million sizes to choose from. Than get one of my custom cams to help it spool up faster. Than grab that fork cause you are gonna eat that cake!

[vwmike]

Get  garret t3, the stock one for the 1.6's and get a t4 compressor wheel and housing, there are a million sizes to choose from. Than get one of my custom cams to help it spool up faster. Than grab that fork cause you are gonna eat that cake!

Upgrading your turbo ususally means that you want to run more boost. So, these calculations are done assuming 30 PSI, 85% VE, 1.6L and 4500 RPM.

Here is the T04E50 compressor you were looking at:



As you can see it is way past the surge limit and very inefficient. You would have to rev the engine to 8500 RPM to get good efficiency out of this turbo.

Here is a T3 with a 45 trim compressor:



It's still way out of the efficiency range.

Bottom line here is that I've looked at every compressor map I've come across and not found a single one which could produce more boost pressure than the stock turbo with any sort of efficiency. There are a few ways around this, but none are as easy as a compressor swap would be.

[935racer]

The stock garret and kkk turbos are great for decent performance the performaance cam is adeffinately a bolt on in my opinion, it requires no mods and can be installed in under an hour and increases spool up and decreases egts. What more could you want

The to4e50 likely will not be the t3 t4 combo we use, also we are using a .48 turbine side instead of a .38.

[vwmike]

The to4e50 likely will not be the t3 t4 combo we use, also we are using a .48 turbine side instead of a .38.

The point is that I've looked at every T4 I could find and none are efficient in this application. It was past the surge limit on every single one. A T4 compressor is just not the right one to use in a single turbo setup.

[DVST8R]

Get  garret t3, the stock one for the 1.6's and get a t4 compressor wheel and housing, there are a million sizes to choose from. Than get one of my custom cams to help it spool up faster. Than grab that fork cause you are gonna eat that cake!

Upgrading your turbo ususally means that you want to run more boost. So, these calculations are done assuming 30 PSI, 85% VE, 1.6L and 4500 RPM.

Here is the T04E50 compressor you were looking at:



As you can see it is way past the surge limit and very inefficient. You would have to rev the engine to 8500 RPM to get good efficiency out of this turbo.

Here is a T3 with a 45 trim compressor:



It's still way out of the efficiency range.

Bottom line here is that I've looked at every compressor map I've come across and not found a single one which could produce more boost pressure than the stock turbo with any sort of efficiency. There are a few ways around this, but none are as easy as a compressor swap would be.

Try a T3 50 trim  :wink: (sorry I don't have the red dot know how, some one will have to add it for me)

With a bit of customization or just slightly less boost (by someone like adp or a similar turbo shop) it would be a well suited for a "stock-upgraded" 1.6TD wanting to run 30ish psi.



However with the motor that we plan to run the t04e 50trim wheel on isnt anything close to a stock 1.6 or 1.9, nor is it our goal to be the perfect daily driver turbo. I think dave just got a little excited about our project  .

The closest I can come to giving some one there cake and eating it too, is they come down to the shop, we sit down with them figureout what there goals are, and then I do the math to find what needs to be done. This for a big power, daily driven 1.6td IMHO would require twins. The best part is it would be easy for the owner, it would just cost some money   .

I also think that sizing and plumbing twins is easier then the getting a vnt/vvt/vgt turbo to run properly and about the same cost, but once again its just my opinion. Not that its worth much  :wink:.

[vwmike]

What sort of engine is this that you want to run the T4 on?

[QuickTD]

While we're on the subject of turbo's, anybody know what the turbine A/R of the factory garrett T3 is? It's usually cast into the housing on the outside and again on the inside just past the manifold flange. 0.36 is the smallest standard T3 A/R, I'm curious if the 1.6 T3 is a "custom".

[DVST8R]

It is a 1.6/1.9 hybrid, custom intake, FMIC, with raceware studs, mains, extensive head work, timing, fuel, valve train work, a verity of cams all for 6500rpm+ operation. We are shooting for a 200whp initial dyno. Which should be quite feasible provided the pump will move that kind of fuel. It is a Giles Stage 4 pump, that has been turned up.  Based on a few hours of research and calculations the t3/t4 hybrid is our best, cheapest bet. We had a freashly rebuilt t3 with a .48 turbine in the shop already, so we are having the t4 compressor wheel added to it for "almost" free. Which is a big concideration at this time as the budget for this build has been reached.

Idealy I wouldnt use any of the old style T-series turbos, it would be a pair of GT ball bearing turbo's or a VNT/VVT/VGT turbo for the small turbo and a large wastegated GT turbo, but that isnt what the budget alows for this time around.

As always these are just my opinions :wink: .

[vwmike]

The stock turbo has a .36 turbine.

How much boost do you think you'll need to reach your goal?

[DVST8R]

More then we have now :roll:

I don't have the #'s in front of me, and I don't want to get it really wrong but  as i recall in the area of 35-37psi and about 500cfm airflow. Now don't go quoting these #'s as I may be out a long ways, but that is what I **think** I remeber. Also it is ok if we over shoot the 200whp :lol: as well I want a turbo that will be capible of more somthing to grow into, again I know this isn't ideal as it doesnt alow for the optimal effciany but with the budget constraint it will do.

[935racer]

200whp is gonna be nothing, even though no tdi's in north america have made that much yet. I have some plans for a real moster 1.6, wait, make that a 1.7 :twisted: but thats all I can say for now, its a suprise.

[vwmike]

200whp is gonna be nothing, even though no tdi's in north america have made that much yet. I have some plans for a real moster 1.6, wait, make that a 1.7 :twisted: but thats all I can say for now, its a suprise.

Well, whatever you do you're going to have to rev the crap out of it if you want to see any efficiency.

[VWRacer]

I don't think "200whp is gonna be nothing" with a single turbo on a mechanically injected engine, even if it isn't really a 'daily driver'. I took the liberty of using vwmike's numbers on the T3-50 map you posted. As you can see, even this 'smallish' turbo has horrible efficiency...barely 65%.



And a T3-50 isn't going to make 200 whp on a diesel...ever! Maybe 150 if you rev the snot out of it. As is pointed out above, it is hard to beat the efficiency of the stock turbo, so I suggest using it as the first stage of a sequential turbo setup, with a somewhat bigger turbo as the second stage. Maybe a used one off a 12-valve Dodge Ram Cummins, or a Big 16G off a Mitsu Evo or other 4g63 engine if you want to keep it cheap.

That way you can flow all the air you need with reasonable efficiency from a bit off idle to 6500+ RPMs without having a smoke-puking, barely drivable pig at normal speeds and RPMs.