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**All You Auto-X'rs Need To Read This** by DVST8R on 26 Oct, 2005 22:12
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Hey I just read this over at TDIclub. This really applies to those of you who race FSP... Jake are you reading this?
Note this is not my info, Orignally posted by: Stealth TDI
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=1140537&an=0&page=0#1140537
Hi,
The DECEMBER FASTRACK is out and the highly-anticipated boost proposal has been accepted. Here's the applicable stuff:
Quote:
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The following rule change proposal, previously published in the August Fastracks and effective 1/1/2006, has been recommended to the BOD:
Replace the contents of 15.10.C with the following:
"C. Induction allowances are as follows:
1. Carburetors, fuel injection, and intake manifolds are unrestricted. Alternate throttle linkage and connections to facilitate installation of allowed induction systems are permitted, but may serve no other purpose. If an induction system item is allowed to be removed and its original mounting bracket can be removed by simply unbolting it, the bracket may be removed as well.
2. Except for standard parts as defined in these rules, the external use while on course of liquids, ice, dry ice, refrigeration systems, vaporized compressed gases, etc. to reduce the temperature of the intake air charge is prohibited.
3. As utilized only on engines originally equipped with forced induction, induction charge heat exchangers (known as "intercoolers" or "charge air coolers (CACs)") are unrestricted in size and configuration. Air-to-air CACs and radiators for air-to-liquid CACs must be cooled only by the atmosphere, except for standard parts. Body panels, fascias, or structural members may not be cut or altered to facilitate CAC installation.
4. Turbochargers and/or superchargers ("forced induction") may not be added, changed, or modified. On vehicles originally equipped with forced induction:
_____a) No hardware changes or alterations to turbocharger(s) or supercharger(s), in size or number, are permitted. Turbochargers or superchargers may be updated/backdated only in conjunction with the accompanying complete engine unit.
_____b) No changes are allowed to waste gate(s) size, number, or location. No changes are allowed to variable-geometryturbine (VGT) hardware.
_____c) No changes are allowed to supercharger drive system pulleys. Belt tensioners may be added/changed to reduce belt slip.
_____d) No changes are permitted to blow-off/pop-offvalves.
_____e) Compressor bypass valves (CBVs) may be updated/backdated independently of the other components of a forced induction system.
_____f) Boost regulation systems, either electronic or mechanical, and electronic fuel cuts referencing boost pressure may be altered or modified except as prohibited herein. Boost pressure changes resulting from authorized changes are permitted."
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The only thing that places many of our TDIs in SM is the chip tuning which alters boost. Now, turbocharged cars may alter their boost as long as they pay respect to items a-f above. That means I'll be running in FSP next year... or FSPX... I'm still undecided.
Perhaps I won't be completely outclassed next year! How exciting with other SP classes become with boosted cars?
Orignally Posted by: Stealth TDI
So what this says to me is, time for a differn't intake manifold one without a popoff valve as you are not alowed to modify the stock one but you are allowed to run a differn't manifold, perhaps a PD130 style. A big FMIC, and run the boost on the turbo right up to its pumping limit. As well as a heck of alot more fuel. This Rule change puts you in a whole new power level. :twisted:
Good luck to all this year, I hope to see you all being alot more competitive! -
#1 by fspGTD on 27 Oct, 2005 09:37
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OMG, that's insane! :shock: Just goes to show it pays to read fasttrack. I'm going to have to hit up someone I know on the Street Prepared Advisory Committee for the story behind this. Watch out for the turbo-diesel invasion, SCCA!
It's going to be crazy running more boost pressure. I actually kind of liked running stock boost, as it made it a challenge to be competitive. But even at stock boost, let me tell ya, I felt plenty competitive - last local event I ran I took 2nd top PAX-indexed time of day, beating some very good drivers including national champions. Now with boatloads of extra power resulting from the increased boost, it's going to almost be too easy. Most of the other cars in my class I race against aren't turbocharged. Those gassers don't have a chance anymore! -
#2 by fspGTD on 28 Oct, 2005 01:48
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This rule change is discussed in detail on this thread:
http://sccaforums.com/forums/1/141442/ShowPost.aspx#141442
You have to read through the thread quite a way to get to it, but according to the guy who actually wrote the text of the new rule (which is now 99% going to pass by the way), the intention was for things like springs and diaphgrams (as well as ECUs, chips, etc) of the boost controlling "system" to be legally modified.
So that means that our 1.6lTD blow off valves can be adjusted without fear of it being an illegal change by adjusting the spring with more pre-load, even replacing the spring with a stiffer version (if that's possible), or simply just screwing it down solid. Probably just not removed entirely though(can't update/backdate it separately, must be kept with same engine and rest of turbo system.) So discarding it would be illegal as wold the BOV block-off plate mod (despite a block-off plate being functionally equivalent to stock BOV modified to always be closed).
The purpose of the rule change is interesting, really... it's to alleviate the need to police difficult to detect mods that effect boost pressure on turbocharged cars.
Time for me to think about getting some increased fueling... How much boost is a 1.6lTD T3 or K24 with wastegate jammed shut good for anyway? :twisted:
Time to take a look at those compressor maps. -
#3 by DVST8R on 28 Oct, 2005 16:42
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Quote from: "fspGTD"
So discarding it would be illegal as wold the BOV block-off plate mod (despite a block-off plate being functionally equivalent to stock BOV modified to always be closed).
The purpose of the rule change is interesting, really... it's to alleviate the need to police difficult to detect mods that effect boost pressure on turbocharged cars.
So does this superseed using any intake manifold then? As normally BOV or POP off valves are found on the charge piping and not on the intake manifold. Would you have to incorperate using the stock, albeit dissabled BOV if you choose to run aa diffrent manifold?Quote from: "fspGTD"
Time for me to think about getting some increased fueling... How much boost is a 1.6lTD T3 or K24 with wastegate jammed shut good for anyway? :twisted:
Time to take a look at those compressor maps.
Well despite what the compressor maps say, I had a T3 run 35psi peak for 8months or so, b4 it blew up. While people may say it was just pumping hot air, it reduced the smoke (burnt more fuel) then it did at 25psi or 30psi.
As far as the K24, I have heard from a few turbo rebuild facilities that they are more robust, as well as flow slightly more air. I know that Deo ran one unintercooled at 35psi for quite sometime and never had a problem with it as well he layed down 135whp with that setup. Imagine with a good FMIC would have done for those numbers.
The other thing to consider is Intercooler size and type, for stock boost pressure you need a lot less cooling capability then when you are pushing the compressor to its limit. This is where spending the money on a good "bell, garrett, spearco, precision ect..." Intercooler would be a worthwile investment. As well as some true pump mods, big camplates, heads ect... but I am just a tuner not much of a racer anymore. :wink: -
#4 by fspGTD on 31 Oct, 2005 10:52
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Quote from: "DVST8R"
So does this superseed using any intake manifold then? As normally BOV or POP off valves are found on the charge piping and not on the intake manifold. Would you have to incorperate using the stock, albeit dissabled BOV if you choose to run aa diffrent manifold?
IMO, for this case, the conservative interpretation is that the blow off valve should stay with the turbo and engine it originally came with. It should be mounted in a way that it would function just like stock if its controls were adjusted to stock specs, IE: mounted to intake manifold plenum.
The longer answer is that it's OK to use a liberal rulebook interpretation, but only adviseable if you've prepared a defense you could use in the event of a protest. Generally, there are sometimes cases where the rules are ambiguous, and in these cases instead of simply intrepreting them liberally, it is wise to write a letter to the SEB (solo events board at SCCA, [email protected] ) and get their official response clarification about the question. Then you can refer to it later in case someone protests you.Quote from: "DVST8R"
Well despite what the compressor maps say, I had a T3 run 35psi peak for 8months or so, b4 it blew up. While people may say it was just pumping hot air, it reduced the smoke (burnt more fuel) then it did at 25psi or 30psi.
As far as the K24, I have heard from a few turbo rebuild facilities that they are more robust, as well as flow slightly more air. I know that Deo ran one unintercooled at 35psi for quite sometime and never had a problem with it as well he layed down 135whp with that setup. Imagine with a good FMIC would have done for those numbers.:
Man, that is some pretty helthy boost out of both of those turbos...
I agree that the K24 appears to have higher flow capability than the Garrett.Quote from: "DVST8R"The other thing to consider is Intercooler size and type, for stock boost pressure you need a lot less cooling capability then when you are pushing the compressor to its limit. This is where spending the money on a good "bell, garrett, spearco, precision ect..." Intercooler would be a worthwile investment. As well as some true pump mods, big camplates, heads ect... but I am just a tuner not much of a racer anymore. :wink:
Not to mention with a plastic end-tanked intercooler, there could be limit of how much pressure it can take before it blows apart! :?