disco pump, timing

[rolo]

Just a thought rich. Same setup, same symptoms. Have you sorted it yet?  Watched the fuel spurts and the cam whilst turning a front wheel in top-- 180 out on the pump. It ran as a td and tdi, surprisingly. I`d gone to great lengths to use a single piece pulley, elongate the bracket and drill the pulley so it pinned in the right spot and could be adjusted whilst running, but the disco no.1 was diagonally opposite. I thought it`d been allowed for, but obviously not, it was injecting when the cams were rocking. It ran quite well once started although smokey. Cheers rolo.

[monkey magic]

Just for reference, my unit has been a little down on power since i got it running in the van. I found and fixed a boost leak 2 days ago, and it was a huge improvement.

I would say then, that with ZERO mods, my landy 200tdi pump is probably achieveing roughly standard power for my engine (90BHP AHU TDi), with timing set to 1.54.

[rolo]

Good news mm. I`m preparing the, what is now, an aef mtdi in a mk2 caddy before attatching a un1 box an putting it in the t3 panel which is, at present, a tuned aef with aaz rods and pistons. The td is at present more powerful but this weekend i`m turning the boost up (vnt15) from vanes constantly open to about 8psi and the fuel and pin to grey to see how that is. Just made an 80 mm downpipe and straight thru. Timing at present is 1.36 set by ear first, will be moving it about so I`ll let you know how that goes. Fuel dies at 4k rpm so the governor needs attention too. Cheers rolo.

[monkey magic]

look forward to the results with that, hope you get it running happily.

Be you the same rolo from the other forum i frequent by any chance?

[rolo]

That`s me. Turned the vanes to throttle related, but controlled by a pressure can limited to 1bar, today. turned fuel up and smoke screw, set of ,well impressed, 2.5k revs boost gauge flies up to 1bar, instant clutch slip with foot to floor. This is going to be good but now need much better clutch. Unfortunately the flywheel/box is Skoda in a mk2 caddy and the 02A gearbox I was going to install disappeared from the back of the truck Thursday. I hear someone in Rochdale area will make up a much higher rated pressure plate. we`ll see.  -----First impressions and thoughts are that the pump needs the gov main spring shimming and in the t3 a vr pressure plate. As you say the pump, as is, produces similar power to the etdi (previously I had a 1Z Golf) but has more potential. Having fun, rolo. Do you live in W Yorks ?

[monkey magic]

Yup, w yorks. Thats the problem with tweaking these, we quickly run into the clutch issue. Keep me informed if you find the Rochdale chap, will be needing this myself sometime soon. I have an allleged 'uprated' unit, but am not sure how much it will take before slipping.

As you said, from what I have read here and elsewhere, governer mod should be 1st port of call, given how the pumps are set up for landy's  rev range etc. Darent do anything to mine until I have the EGT installed, I dont even have a rev counter yet, i just go till my ears start to bleed, then back off a little..!

[oldskool rich]

still had no real luck with mine, on second pump now because first one turned out to be scrap
i think the prob is fuel starvation, nothin to do with pump, more the set up of the car as it used to be a 1.3 petrol.

i didnt realise the pump could be 180 out? i just used the tdc off the landrover and then do the rest with a depth gauge, is that right?

i found its realy hard to set up, it either doesnt start or it revs its tits off anyone know a better way to set the throttle arm and max fuel?

[oldskool rich]

im still having massive problems getting my disco running, the throttle started off by having a little response then it lost all response after was running for a few minits, engine just revs up and down as it pleases, wont idle, its either reving or dieing, max fuel controls weather it revs or dies but throttle lever is doing nothing now, ive never seen so much smoke in my life (grey), sounds like its running on all 4 but seems like the timing is wrong wen it is 100% perfectly timed to 1.54, any ideas? cus this is the 2nd pump now and they both seem to be doing similar things. im running an AAZ cam would that make a difference? thort they wer ment to be an upgrade? maybe they only work on the electric pumps? anyone know?

ive checked the fuel supply and now running an inline fuel pump good for 200bhp but made no diffence

im at my witts end, theres no reason i can see for this to not work, cud it be down to injectors? maybe the engine is just haunted


help

[monkey magic]

You have a lot of unknowns in your build, so until you eliminate these, you will be doing this all by trial and error. To me, questionable things:

Cam: Fit for purpose? Timed properly?
Pump: Serviced, set up and in sound working order? Timed properly?
Engine: Have you ever seen it running well? ie with original ecu'd pump and cam? Compression tested? Injectors known to be happy?

When you say you got the TDC from the landy unit what do you mean? Timing is obviously ALMOST there, or you wouldnt be running at all. By the sound of it you dont have a good TDC mark to start from.

Also, if you've been messing with the pump to compensate, even when you hit perfect timing (which you may have already) the engine will not run well. I worried this is half of the problem.

First off for me would be

1) ensure that your TDC mark is sound (this was my first stumbling block as my engine is in a van now, and the bellhousing mark was different to the golf bellhousing the engine came from!) If it isnt right, your cam may be out too, and that will mess up running.

2) find out for sure that the aaz cam is happy in a tdi. even if it is, swapping a standard tdi cam back in will eliminate one less potential issue.

3) if you have messed with the different settings on the pump, return them to standard (if you marked everything up) or take it to a good pump shop and let them do it (see if they'll do the gov mod for you while its open!) Remember, theres only so much people like us can do with these pumps, guys dont invest years and thousands in training, experience, and equipment for fun. Its specialist stuff, that we can destroy in 5 minutes in our sheds!

Keep us up to date, I love the concept of mtdi-ing these engines, and want to see you get this sorted.

mm

[oldskool rich]

ive built quite a few pumps in the past, i havent changed anything i dont understand, and ive already rebuilt one of these pumps and is up and running in my corrado, ive never seen this pump running or the original pump

i will change the cam and check that the bell housing tdc is right, that never crossed my mind, but makes alot of sence an might do the injectors at the same time too


ill keep you posted, thanx very much for your help xx

[oldskool rich]

ok so it turns out that one valve was slightly bent, i think from over reving wen it had no gov

changed the whole engine for the spare with ARPs and now it runs, wen i say runs, i meen it runs like ***
it sounds like pre ignition, almost sounds like tappits, is that normal? also so much smoke it hurts ur eyes, and no power, also fuel dripping out the exhaust

since the pump was rebuit by carwoods in the end and fully calibrated to disco standards and bench tested, also running electric pick up pump, timed to 1.25 and running AAZ cam im saying injectors are no good, what you rekon?

please if anyone has any other ideas please speak now need it done this wk

[burn_your_money]

Try timing the pump 180 out.

[monkey magic]

Can't see how it would run if it was 180 degrees out but at the top of the page Rolo says his ran like that, so it could well be the problem.

Are you happy about your TDC? Try your timing at 1.54.

The masses of smoke does sound like timing to me, so either of the above may be it

Also, are your injector lines proper? ie right length and all the same etc?

If you have a spare engine, does that mean you have spare injectors to swap in to see if they are the problem?

What about fuel? Are you using diesel thats been in a gerry can for 3 years?

TBH, your cam makes me nervous still, both AAZ nature of it and possible timing probs..

[burn_your_money]

I've heard of 2 people running their car with the timing 180 out so it is definitely possible.

[theman53]

One of my 1.6L ran better with the pump 180 out than it did with it in time...both were poor though.