injectors

[phantom59]

Ok I am looking into replacing the injectors on my 81 rabbit. It has a rough idel, lack of power and poor mileage (36mpg) all of which from what I have read can be caused by faulty injectors. The car has 92,000 miles on it but it was parked in a garage for 20 years. The only thing I don't understand is when I cold start the car and pull the timing advance it does nothing. The cable is connected and rotating the shaft on the back of the pump. On my 90 Jetta when I pull this the idel speed raises and it smothes out.
Now I guess my concern is that there is more to this situation than I understand and I don't want to waist the money on new injectors if this isn't going to fix the problem.
Also are these junk http://www.dieselvw.com/16NAInjector.htm ? I haven't done any buisness with this guy and I an sure someone here has. I know you get what you payfor but $80 to $100 each for rebuilt injectors is a lot of money

[Wayland]

Your 90 Jetta had idle speed boost (started in 86), and you 81 doesn't, so your rack advance is probably working just fine.

[phantom59]

So does it sound like replacing the injectors will solve the problem?

[wolf_walker]

How does it run cold, knob in and/or out? 

If the timing is right, compression is good, fuel isn't full of air, there isn't much else but injectors.
The mileage is low though, unless there are deposits from sitting with fuel in them for a long time.
There are some pretty tuff chemical cleaners(diesel purge) that might do it, didn't help this
last rabbit I bought, but it has a lot of miles on it.

[phantom59]

Idel is rough with knob in or out but worse when cold. I haven't checked the timing marks but the belt was replaced by a mechanic from the former owner when it was pulled from storage with an oil leak. Am wondering if it could be a notch off?
Don't have a diesel compression tester so not sure but unless it has stuck rings from sitting 92k shouldn't hurt it.
It has a clear filter canister and no bubbles before the pump.
I will check into the Diesel Purge and try it if I can find it.
I am very disaponted in the mechanic I normaly use. My uncle had the car checked as a Christmas present and they replaced the glow plugs and convinced him that the car was running great. Even thought it takes 3/4 pedal to cruise 60 mph in 5th gear and you will loose speed going over an overpass. It was normal to have to downshift to climb a moderate hill since this is a small weak little engine.
This after uncle has owned VW diesels of some kind since the late 70s

[phantom59]

One other thing the mechanic said was the excessive smoke when cold started was injectors leaking by but they would work fine once warmed up.

[wolf_walker]

One other thing the mechanic said was the excessive smoke when cold started was injectors leaking by but they would work fine once warmed up.

It's possible for that to be true-ish, but it's bad thinking in my opinion.
I think you'd do well to stick a set of injectors in it.  And double
check the timing.

[phantom59]

Thanks for the input I have goten more information from this thread than the previous ones.
Now back to one of my original questions has anyone here purchased a set of these http://www.dieselvw.com/16NAInjector.htm ??
There is a big diffrence between $100 a set and $90 each from NAPA.

[wolf_walker]

Search on here for Prothe, apparently his stuff is hit or miss.  If I was being thrifty I'd buy a set and try to get somebody to pop test them, or build a tester.  I'm of the opinion that it don't take a lot to machine a device like an injector well on even twenty year old machinery, which is probly older than what they are using in China or wherever his are made.  The only question is if they are set to the right breaking pressure.  Another thought is to by new nozzles for yours and have them set up locally at a diesel shop.
Injectors are sort of a can of worms, I bought a brand new set from Bosch recently and still wish I'd checked them for spray pattern and release pressure.  There are better deals online for Bosch stuff than what Napa is charging also.

[phantom59]

Thanks
Any place in mind to check for a good price on Bosch Injectors? When I search I get a lot of crap not related to VW.
As for testing I read somewhere that I would need 300psi to pop test them. I don't have a way to generate that presure.
On the simple side everything you have said tells me to replace the injectors but do you think there could be any chance it could be a notch off on timing and causing this (just hoping for the free fix)?

[theman53]

https://www.autohausaz.com/search/product.aspx?sid=ltfpk445om0s2f55hvs3sgqi&makeid=800026@VW&modelid=1285455@RABBIT L &year=1984&cid=22@Fuel %26 Air System&gid=6100@Diesel Injector

There are also heat sheilds that need changed every time you take an injector out...buy extras. This page is for my old 84, but should be the same. The main site is https://www.autohausaz.com/index.html

There are many vendors out there. Myke_W is a mod here and has a site of parts located here. http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/~mw105397/dubdoctor/parts_site/idiparts.html
But he doesn't have everything you need for a VW, but who does . Also, the vendors section has a bunch of people that are in business doing this stuff. Giles does pumps, but now stocks alot of parts for maintaining our VWs, but he is in Canada.

Yes it could be your timing as to why it is rough. Pump timing that is not timing belt timing. I think if you are off a tooth on the IP without changing the pump timing I doubt it would start and run...I don't know that for sure though. My 81 I thought was off and when I finally had it checked it was fine. That was when I wasn't on this site and it was my first diesel VW. Turned out it was idling way too slow, turned the idle up and it was fine. Bottom line is find out if the IP is set somewhere between .95 and 1.05mm and go from there.

On Prothe, my personal feelings on this are mine and take it for what you want... I wouldn't buy a critical engine part from him. Headlight, door handle, engine mount maybe. Something that could wreck the engine if it failed like a timing belt or tensioner no. Why...becuase I seem to have found I am not lucky and it always ends up cheaper for me to do it right the first time then try to save money by testing my luck with cheap parts and doing it again later. A headlight won't break me if it fails on the road or anywhere for that matter, but if I have to do an engine I am hurting.

[phantom59]

Thanks I will check out the sites you sugested for the injectors. I am the same way on critical engine parts and a few dollars for what  I feel is a better part not made in Mexico or China is worth it.
I don't think the IP timing is off unless they can do this on thier own because I don't believe they messed with it.
Also I have the Bently manuals for the car also a bunch of other VW related stuff that came with the car.
If the knob doesn't smothe out the idel when cold what is it doing and how can I tell if it is doing anything?

[phantom59]

Called a local Diesel service and they will test the injectors for free if I bring them it and Approx. $50 to $60 each to rebuild
Looked at Autohaus and they have rebuilt Bosch injectors for $42 less core charge. That is cheaper than I can have them done locally. Have you had good luck with his products?

[Doug]

Do a compression test. It is the cheapest way to tell you something definitive. My 87 sat for probably 9 years before running again. The piston rings were stuck in tar in the ring lands probably from the extended no run period. It ran rough, hot and used oil. I only knew the condition after I pulled it apart. The cash to rebuild it was money well spent.

[phantom59]

Mine doesn't run rough and doesn't use oil or run hot.
Is it safe to run Seafoam in the oil with this diesel engine to clean it out?