more supercharger talk

[truckinwagen]

as some of ypu might already know, I have been tying with the idea of supercharging and eventually twincharging my 1.6 diesel.

I found and bought a G60 supercharger to rebuild. as they are readily available, are remarkably efficient(make lots of boost for the HP draw), and are reasonably sized for their output. but I recently got poor and rebuild parts for them have gotten fairly expensive, so I have decided to sell the G60 to someone who can afford to rebuild it and buy a supercharger that does not need to be rebuilt as often.

I have my eyes on eaton superchargers of the M62 and M90 persuasion.
these both have a re-circulator that would be easy to set to allow boost only on throttle(and to allow a turbo to blow through it when twincharged)

according to the eaton website with the bypass open they only take 1/3 HP to spin at 6000 RPM
they do however apparently take 30HP(M62) and 45HP(M90) to produce 10 PSI of boost.

my question is, do you think the motor would be able to spin the supercharger and be able to make more power than without it.

I like the eaton because it would be easy to twincharge and would allow for cruising with little drag on the motor(good highway mileage) my only question is wether or not the motor will be able to make power with one.

-Owen

[Rabbit on Roids]

WOAH!!! 45 horse to make ten psi? EFF THAT! anyone interrested in an M90? the volvo penta charger i got up in alaska only takes around 25 horsepower to make 15 psi at 12,500 blower rpm. i dont think the 1.6 crank nose will withstand transmitting that kinda power to a supercharger yo.

[truckinwagen]

those numbers might be a bit off for our motors as the eatons are designed for much larger motors(the M62 and M90 anyway) and flow LOTS more than our motors could ever ingest, I would be under-driving the eaton to keep the boost levels reasonable.

I think an M45 would be perfect, as they are designed for a 1.6L(Mini) and take substantially less HP to produse boost on, but they are less available and more expensive than the M90 or M62

[truckinwagen]

according to the performance maps, the M45 takes 25 HP to produce 12PSI, so I will keep my eyes open for one of them.

[Rabbit on Roids]

yea, im thinkin the eaton M90 i got would be better suited for my 2.0 TD.

[arb]

Not to rain on your parade, but why would you super charge ? You want boost in the 10 - 12 psi range? Why? Emissions reduction or more HP ? If so, why eat most of the HP you gain from the charged intake just to produce the boost ? I don't get it. If you turbo-charge, you get that 25 hp FREE as it was waste energy going out the muffler. The turbos easily make 12 psi and more without a single lost HP through the crank. Yes, a super charger sounds cool and has no lag, but many turbo's also meet these features.

[truckinwagen]

the idea is to twin charge eventually.

the eaton setup will be remarkably simple and much cheaper than getting a turbo setup running.

the supercharger is only for the low end grunt, the top end will eventually be taken over by a rather large turbo.(t3 super 60 hopefully)

the turbo does not give you "Free" Horsepower, it introduces a fairly large restriction to the exhaust, costing power pushing the exhaust out of the cylinder.
this also allows the motor to soak up lots of heat, hence the need for piston squirters and oil coolers.


and lastly, I want to supercharge a diesel because I have already turbocharged one and want to try something different.

-Owen

[truckinwagen]

I like the eaton (M90 and M62) because they have a bypass that would allow the turbo to blow through them while they freewheel that could be setup very easily.

the M45 does not have this, so it would need to be fabricated or would end up compounding the boost all the time.

the G60 has no bypass and even vented to the atmosphere takes a fair amount of HP to turn because it compresses air inside the casing before releasing it into the outlet. the eaton whereas does no compressing inside itself and takes very little to spin vented.

my idea was to rig up the bypass to only produce boost on throttle and only until the turbo spools, that way I could get the low end grunt I want(I really don't want too much more than 10PSI really low for my bottom ends sake)
and be able to spool a REALLY big turbo that would give less backpressure than a turbo sized for the engine all by itself.

-Owen

[arb]

the turbo does not give you "Free" Horsepower, it introduces a fairly large restriction to the exhaust, costing power pushing the exhaust out of the cylinder.
this also allows the motor to soak up lots of heat, hence the need for piston squirters and oil coolers.

Yeah, "free" was not the best choice of words. There is some "pumping losses" due to the back pressure, but it is an order of magnitude less than a super charger cost you to get the same PSI in your charge. I'll bet your blown engine with have the same heat issues a turbo'ed engine sees.

The only real test would be the BSFC (amount of HP per amount of fuel) for either. I have seen on my car - an NA engine with stock NA IP, with the turbo, Lots and lots of power, when the turbo got loose and stopped boosting, serious loss of power.

But, if you are doing just because its not the beaten path, great !!! We look forward to seeing it :-D

[smokin_fun]

The real nice thing about superchargin it would be the sweet intake and exhaust you could use. The g 60 intake plus a set of headers would make yer blown diesel sound bad ass!!! Plus with that setup boost would be even across all cylinders...increasing efficiency.

correct me if i am wrong but would a super charger give more compression braking to these diesels for driving in mountains and such? also if blower was running constantly at say 20 psi wouldn't egt problems be a thing of the past (as long as max fueling coincides with max boost in a nice way).

What tranny would you use to deal with all that low end?

[truckinwagen]

the supercharger would add to the compression braking abilities of the diesel, as it takes HP to turn it.
I will be trying to figure out how to boost only on throttle though to try to keep efficincy up.

EGT should not be too much of a problem without a turbo as it wont be introducing a restriction to the exhaust, but as I said, I plan on slapping a turbo on top anyway.

as for the transmission, I have a few 020's lying around, so I will see how long one will last!

-Owen

[truckinwagen]

the question with that is, how much does a VNT cost to buy and install?

I would love to run VNT, but the rear motor mount on my MK2 looks like it would be difficult to pull off.

[truckinwagen]

the control is the main reason I dont want to go VNT, it would be much easier to bolt on the supercharger and figire out the bypass control than to do the VNT

also the price of an eaton is much less than that of a VNT, or I can rebuild the G60 I already have for the price of a VNT.

if I can fiind an M45 soon I will probably go that route, until then I think I will bolt on the G60 for proof on concept(unless someone has bought it from me before then)

[truckinwagen]

I am aware of that.

part of this project is to use the parts I have lying around.

I am kinda trying to sell the G60, but part of me just wants to use it to cut down on the hassle of shipping it and getting another supercharger/turbocharger.

I may build the motor and mount the G60 to see how well it works before I invest the big $$ in rebuilding the G60 just to make sure it works OK.

[Rabbit on Roids]

integrated manifold VNTs dont work on mk2s. trust me, i tried. it doesnt work.