Forged TDI rods + AAZ block = FAIL - page 1 - IDI Engine - VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.
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Forged TDI rods + AAZ block = FAIL by Syncroincity on 04 Sep, 2009 19:41
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They don't fit.
The Intengineering TDI rods are too wide, and hit the lip of the cylinder opening.
I had the bottom end all assembled, and was trying to bolt on the rod caps, but could not get the motor to turn more than about 45deg. WTF?
Then I saw the interference... damn, it had been going so smoothly up to that point, too.
They smack into the cylinder lip right at the edge of the oil squirter... I don't know if it will be possible to clearance the block, it looks like it might go right into the threaded squirter screw hole. The opposite side is the same. It does not seem like it needs much, the crank is almost at the 90deg position when it hits, just a couple of mils might do it.
Maybe a combination of block and rod clearancing, but I have no idea what grinding a slice out of the I-beam rod will do to the strength (well, I can guess
)
To top it off, I went and sold off my original rods. I hope I can come up with a fix for this, or I'll need the old ones back.
...oh, of course, it's also a long weekend, so nothing is open for the next 3 days. Can you say "dead in the water"? -
#1 by burn_your_money on 04 Sep, 2009 19:52
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I'll trade you some AAZ rods for your rods
What TDI engine are they for? -
#2 by subsonic on 05 Sep, 2009 06:25
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You should let Pete at I.E know asap. Lets see how they respond and try to make it right.
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#3 by rabbid79 on 05 Sep, 2009 12:40
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Strictly speaking, I'm not sure I.E. did anything wrong. If they are "TDI" rods, and they were used in an IDI application with and IDI block, I'm not sure there's anything they could/should do about it. Now if Pete stated these would work in your application, then you have a leg to stand on. Personally, I would have assumed that these rods would work in an AAZ block, but aparently they don't. I know that when guys stroke their 5-cyl Audi engines, they have to "clearance" the block. This is what I would try. I definitely wouldn't touch the rods.
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#4 by Rabbit on Roids on 05 Sep, 2009 14:24
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tdi and AAZ blocks are supposed to be the same... there is someone on here that has a TDI AAZ. so the stock components have to fit in an AAZ block.
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#5 by burn_your_money on 05 Sep, 2009 16:50
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That's why I asked what year TDI it was for. The 1z and AHUs are basically the same. They have the same bore/stroke and whatnot but the TDI block has extra machining for the crank sensor. It's possible that the clearance for the crank could be different still
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#6 by Syncroincity on 05 Sep, 2009 20:05
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Well, they're listed for TDI 1.9L up to 2004... I was under the impression that the AAZ and at least the earlier 1Z blocks were essentially the same. They really dont mention AAZ as an application for the rods, I just assumed they would fit. The rod dimensions are the same as AAZ, except, obviously, for the width of the beam.
Looks like I have a date with the angle grinder
Block clearancing tips anyone? I'll stay away from the rods themselves, that seems like a really bad idea on further reflection.
One bright spot in all this; since I had to remove the pistons again, I caught one of the oil rings that had snapped on installation into the cylinder. -
#7 by clarkrep on 07 Sep, 2009 07:34
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I hope i works to clearance the block. I would rather not send your rods back to ya.
Could you get a picture of the interference? -
#8 by Syncroincity on 07 Sep, 2009 12:19
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Motor's back apart already... and the angle grinder does not fit in between the bearing saddles. So I'm faced now with taking it to a machine shop.
Syncro-creep strikes again.
Does anyone know somebody running these rods in an early TDI? I can't be the first guy to have bought and installed them. Wondering now if it might be easier/cheaper to find a TDI block if there is an internal difference... -
#9 by 53 willys on 07 Sep, 2009 16:47
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if all you gotta do is a few MM for clearance maybe grab something like this..
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=3745
and this...
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=47050
I have not used the harbor freight brand burr bits/rotary files...but I have used good snap-on tool brand bits and they are just plain amazing!!...
the down fall is they send super tiny slivers of metal ALL over the place!! so you would really really have to be careful not to leave shavings in the block..
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#10 by rallydiesel on 07 Sep, 2009 18:23
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I think you got rods for the ALH, which are different from the prior generations. The AAZ, AHU and 1Z are virtually identical bottom ends but the ALH has enough minor differences to not really have any compatible parts (except pistons, I think?).
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#11 by Spulen81 on 08 Sep, 2009 10:46
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ALH pistons and rods are interchangeable with 1Z/AHU pistons/rods. I have ALH stuff in my AHU.
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#12 by andy2 on 08 Sep, 2009 20:11
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I've used h-beam rods in my AAZ (they were sold as TDI rods) then put thm into my ALH.They worked for both in my case.They were made by rosten.
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#13 by Syncroincity on 08 Sep, 2009 22:18
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Maybe try a dremel?
Yeah, I thought about that last night...
Dremel Tool FTW...
For some reason I thought the Dremel wouldn't handle the job, but then again, what's to lose by trying... Those orange grinding stones ate through the metal like a rat thru cheese. I sort of forgot the block is cast iron, not some high-strength steel... I sat down this morning and knocked it out in about 2 hours. Nothing scientific, I just took it down about 3/16" or so, ramped it into the cylinder. I de-ringed one of the pistons and checked the clearances, setting the crank on the old bearings and lubing it up well... looks like I'm good to go. I need to refit the oil squirters and re-check; and make sure there's no problems with the attachment tang.
The worst part was having to clean out the block again. Iron filings everywhere. 'Course, I taped off all the oil galleys first.
Another job I would not have pictured myself doing turns out to be no big deal. This build is getting very educational
The question about the AAZ vs TDI blocks still stands, though... maybe not so identical internally? -
#14 by oldskool rich on 09 Sep, 2009 09:48
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can you get uprated rods and forged pistons for the 2.0 PD?
if so where should i look?
the AAZ is the same block as a 1Z them rods are dodgy