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Author Topic: distributor head o-ring, remove IP or in car?  (Read 6357 times)

Reply #15June 11, 2009, 07:02:36 pm

92EcoDiesel Jetta

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Re: distributor head o-ring, remove IP or in car?
« Reply #15 on: June 11, 2009, 07:02:36 pm »
Ive got the same setup - you can remove the pump without unmounting the compressor its just 4 bolts 3 pulley side and 1 on the back side, unbolt the pump pulley slap a gear puller on it and remove.

Its risky business working the high pressure pump head while on the car

How long does it take to pull the IP and put it back timed? I didn't have a gear puller plus I didn't want to mess up the timing so didn't consider pulling the IP. It took me about 3 to 4 hours changing the o-ring with IP in the car. Much of it was spent figuring what to do, what tool fits and being careful taking things apart so I don't screw something up. If I were to do the job again, I think I can do it in under 2 hours.

Reply #16June 11, 2009, 11:20:56 pm

92EcoDiesel Jetta

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Re: distributor head o-ring, remove IP or in car?
« Reply #16 on: June 11, 2009, 11:20:56 pm »
That is correct. An keeping things clean is also very important! The way I kept pressure on the main plunger was by backing the four T-30 torx bolts out just enough to expose the o-ring, then remove only one at a time to slip the o-ring over each T-30. That means at any given time there's always 3 T-30 in place.




THAT IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH.  YOU GOT VERY, VERY, VERY LUCKY THAT YOU DIDN'T DESTROY YOUR PUMP!!![/size]

There is a very small washer at the base of the main plunger that is all of 1/16" thick.  If you do not maintain pressure ON THE PLUNGER (my method is to add a small spacer under the timing plug bolt and tightening that bolt down on the spacer and plunger as I loosen the four mounting bolt for the head) then loosening the distributor head far enough to remove the o-ring will definitely allow plenty of space for that little washer to fall out of position.  If it falls out of position, your plunger will be torqued sideways and WILL break the first time you turn over your engine.  The pieces of shrapnel accumulate very quickly from there on out.  YOU ARE VERY, VERY LUCKY THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN TO YOU!!!

I am hoping that I am emphasizing this all enough that anyone hoping to do the same makes sure to take the RIGHT PRECAUTIONS to ensure that their pump doesn't become TRASH.

For anyone considering doing the above mentioned procedure DO NOT DO IT THE WAY IT HAS BEEN OUTLINED BY 92EcoDiesel Jetta!!!  YOUR PUMP WILL MOST LIKELY BE GARBAGE AFTERWARD IF YOU DO!!

[92EcoDiesel Jetta, I appreciate your input and am very glad that your procedure worked for you.  I am not in any way attempting to belittle you or your contribution to this forum.  I am only trying to save others some heartache.  Everyone else I know of that has done it that way (I know of several) has ended up with a destroyed pump.]

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I guess I am lucky. I must say the head, which was backed out by not more than 3/8" at most, felt like it was always being pushed against by a spring and not just floating. I don't understand the spacer you speak of. If you put a spacer under the timing plug bolt, wouldn't that move the bolt further away from the washer and plunger? Am I reading it wrong? Seems like you need a longer bolt to maintain more pressure? Please clarify.

This is not my procedure and I found it online somewhere. It never mentioned about adding a spacer. I can dig it up and post a link to it later.

ps. libbybapa , no belittling felt. I was merely documenting what I did- good or bad. I was ready for the possible consequences of failure and did my best to work clean and slow and I lucked out.

Here's one of the procedure I used, even though it was not for my 92 model year: http://www.dieselgeek.com/TDI_Injection_Pump_Head_Seal_Replacement.htm

Here's another that I looked at: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/VW-Diesel-Injection-Pump-Gasket-Kit-Rabbit-VITON-BIO_W0QQitemZ150348086849QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item230171be41&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318
« Last Edit: June 12, 2009, 12:14:45 am by 92EcoDiesel Jetta »

Reply #17June 12, 2009, 12:03:25 am

rabbitman

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Re: distributor head o-ring, remove IP or in car?
« Reply #17 on: June 12, 2009, 12:03:25 am »
The little washer is in a resess in the plunger base, that's the end that is against the camplate, so the camplate holds the little washer in.
If you let a gap get between the camplate and plunger the washer can easily fall out.

Anybody know what the washer does?

As for the spring pressure your talking about, that's most likely the throttle return springs and they have nothing to do with holding pressure on the plunger. Good job though.

I was a lucky one too, when I first got my rabbit I took the head either off or mostly off (I forgot exactly ::)) in car for no reason whatsoever. Ran fine after I got it together ;D.
'82 Rabbit, I put on a euro vnt-15, 2.25" DP, 2.5" exhaust, the result.....it whistled.

I removed the turbo, made a toilet bowl 2.5" DP, the result....it was deafening. Now it has a homemade muffler up front and a thrush in the rear, the result.....less loud.
Watch: AGENDA, GRINDING AMERICA DOWN

Reply #18June 12, 2009, 01:03:01 am

rabbitman

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Re: distributor head o-ring, remove IP or in car?
« Reply #18 on: June 12, 2009, 01:03:01 am »


Rabbitman, that little washer adjusts the start and stopping points of the plunger's stroke. 

Andrew

So a thicker one will start the injection sooner and a thinner one will delay the start?

Makes sense, it just seemed weird that mine was flush with the plunger base making me think it had no affect on anything, thanks for clearing that up. :D
'82 Rabbit, I put on a euro vnt-15, 2.25" DP, 2.5" exhaust, the result.....it whistled.

I removed the turbo, made a toilet bowl 2.5" DP, the result....it was deafening. Now it has a homemade muffler up front and a thrush in the rear, the result.....less loud.
Watch: AGENDA, GRINDING AMERICA DOWN

Reply #19June 12, 2009, 10:58:07 am

92EcoDiesel Jetta

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Re: distributor head o-ring, remove IP or in car?
« Reply #19 on: June 12, 2009, 10:58:07 am »
Andrew, thank you very much for the explanation. I understand the spacer now, which is an internal spacer rod, rather than a spacer washer as I first thought. My longer bolt idea was on the right track though? As a further development to your drill bit spacer, how about putting a spring behind it and then a shorter timing plug (8mmx1) bolt? It would then provide constant pressure against the little disc or washer from being dislodged. I saw a PDF file with pics on how to put a distributor head back together after all the parts have fallen out and I know the disc or washer you're talking about now.

I wonder why Dieselgeek left out such a crucial step in his procedure?

Reply #20June 12, 2009, 11:04:21 am

arb

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Re: distributor head o-ring, remove IP or in car?
« Reply #20 on: June 12, 2009, 11:04:21 am »
Great job !! Are your other seals Viton ? The shaft seal and throttle come to mind, or are these not prone to leaking with WVO ? I like your photos...

Reply #21June 12, 2009, 02:45:04 pm

92EcoDiesel Jetta

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Re: distributor head o-ring, remove IP or in car?
« Reply #21 on: June 12, 2009, 02:45:04 pm »
Great job !! Are your other seals Viton ? The shaft seal and throttle come to mind, or are these not prone to leaking with WVO ? I like your photos...

Not yet. When it starts to leak again, I will pull the pump and replace the seals with Viton if I can get them. I have a main shaft Viton shaft seal already, but need a source for the 2 advance piston seals, which are not regular o-ring shaped, but rather a dual lip design. Anyone know where I can source those in Viton? Andrew? Anyone?
The other small o-rings I can go to my local hydraulic shop and match them up with Viton.

Viton stands up to Bio Diesel much better than Buna Nitrile, which is what the regular Bosch re-seal kits are made of. I think for WVO, Buna Nitrile will be fine. I think old IP's leak just from age of the seals, shrinking and taking a compression set. The old distributor head o-ring that came out looked pretty bad. It was flat and not round anymore! No wonder it was leaking!

Photos are from my phone cam, pretty bad actually but since I have my phone with me always, bad photos are better no photos? I really enjoy your post putting a TD into the Caravan with all the photos. Keep up the good work!

Reply #22June 12, 2009, 03:35:07 pm

92EcoDiesel Jetta

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Re: distributor head o-ring, remove IP or in car?
« Reply #22 on: June 12, 2009, 03:35:07 pm »


That's good to know Andrew! Are you saying that if I get a Standard Bosch DGK-126 re-seal kit, that the assorment of green and black seals are bio diesel compatible?

In the pic above, the only seal that's not part of the DGK-126 is the one on lower right, which is a Viton main shaft seal I bought separately from a local fuel injection shop, it is Viton, brown with a Bosch p/n on it.

Reply #23June 12, 2009, 03:41:40 pm

92EcoDiesel Jetta

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Re: distributor head o-ring, remove IP or in car?
« Reply #23 on: June 12, 2009, 03:41:40 pm »
The p/n of that Bosch main shaft seal is 1 460 283 312
As I recall it was about $12
Andrew, can you look the p/n up and get a description?

Reply #24June 12, 2009, 03:59:17 pm

92EcoDiesel Jetta

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Re: distributor head o-ring, remove IP or in car?
« Reply #24 on: June 12, 2009, 03:59:17 pm »
The main shaft seal on the upper left, which came with the DGK-126 kit from Ebay, is not Bosch but Zexel with a p/n 9 461 614 046
It came in a separate sealed package taped to the outside of the Bosch kit. It's black with a stainless steel outer band. Have you seen or used that seal and is it bio diesel compatible? As far as pulling the old seal, do you have a special tool that you  like to use? A pic or description would really help

Reply #25June 29, 2009, 01:05:47 pm

92EcoDiesel Jetta

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Re: distributor head o-ring, remove IP or in car?
« Reply #25 on: June 29, 2009, 01:05:47 pm »
I took this video of a VE pump so that I have record of how it came apart.  (It's not a VW IP given to me by a mechanic).  I took it apart before I did the O-ring as described in this post. Question to Andrew (or anyone else who knows): Is the disc/washer that can possibly fall out of place when the distributor head is backed out with IP still in car (rather than on the bench with distributor head pointing up) in this video? It's the one where I lifted it off momentarily.


Reply #26July 12, 2019, 08:39:46 pm

92EcoDiesel Jetta

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Re: distributor head o-ring, remove IP or in car?
« Reply #26 on: July 12, 2019, 08:39:46 pm »
Hey everyone, it's been 10 years and 1 month since I did this job! Time really flies! I haven't logged onto this forum for a long time since my Ecodiesel has been running great all these years until a few days ago, the distributor head suddenly developed a leak, dripping a continuous stream of fuel. I guess 10 years is not too shabby, I am glad the pics are still here so I can refer to them. I have a new distributor head o-ring from a DGK-126 kit and will attempt to do this job tomorrow. I hope it will go as well as the last time. Wish me luck.

Reply #27July 16, 2019, 09:05:01 am

92EcoDiesel Jetta

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Re: distributor head o-ring, remove IP or in car?
« Reply #27 on: July 16, 2019, 09:05:01 am »
Good news! the job was done successfully! Took about 3 hours with breaks in between.


The fuel distributor o-ring that came out was black in color and compressed totally flat, thus why it started to leak. It was not the Viton o-ring that I installed 10 years ago. Now I remember swapping the IP out because I had a shaft seal leak and I did not have a new shaft seal and needed to get the car on the road ASAP. The replacement IP came from a low mileage wrecked Ecodiesel that I had in my stash.


I am adding notes here for anyone who may need to do this job and in case I have to do this job again:


Clean the area with Brake clean/ tooth brush. Remove IP hard lines and fuel shut off solenoid.


1. The advance cable should be removed first before removing the advance cable/ IP lock plate otherwise it may be difficult to separate from the plate.


2. The advance able/ IP lock plate is held on by 2 short Hex bolts (near center of distributor head) and 2 long Torx bolts (on perimeter of distributor head). Make sure you use the correct driver or your will stripping them!  Remove the 13 mm IP lock bolt  /Cone nut first then remove 2 Torx + 2 Hex bolts to remove the plate.

3. Back out the remaining 2 long Torx bolts (equally, a little a a time) that's holding the distributor head in till the o-ring is visible and accessible.  The springs will push the distributor head out as you back the 2 bolts out. Do not remove those 2 bolts because the head will fall out and springs will go flying and you'll have to take the IP to a fuel injection shop to put it back together, unless you are capable of diy.

4. Use a pick to pry up the o-ring, cut it with scissor to aid in removal. The o-ring will most likely be stuck in the groove. Don't yank on it and hope it will come out in one piece. If the o-ring breaks on the side between the IP and block, you have no room to grab onto it anymore and may have to pull the IP to get the bits of stuck o-ring off. Use a bent coat hanger to unseat the o-ring all the way around to get it off in one piece.

5. Spray the area with WD-40 to clean and also as a lube. Stretch the new o-ring over the distributor head over the groove. It will be sitting in the groove under the 2 removed Torx bolts but sitting on the 2 Torx bolts that's holding the head in. Put the 2 other 2 Torx bolts in before removing the 2 Torx that's preventing the o-ring from seating all around. Spray the o-ring with lot's of WD-40 before putting the 2 Torx you just pulled out back in.  Tighten the 2 Torx (shallow heads) all the way to seat the head. Note: 2 of the 4 Torx bolts have shallower heads and they are not interchangeable! Take the 2 Torx bolts out so you can install  now install the advance cable/ IP lock plate then put everything else back together.






 

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