Author Topic: Ok yes or no?.... Pump question. (Read 3170 times)

foxracer1 · « **on:** February 23, 2009, 05:36:16 pm »

Quote

Rebuilt 1.9 AAZ Turbodiesel Injector Pump. This pump is rebuilt with a TDI camplate and TDI 10mm rotor, so it is M-TDI ready, but will work fine with a stock 1.9 AAZ engine. ($260 + $200 Core Charge)
$460

Prothe sells this and states you can run the AAZ with it. I'm putting a TDI 10mm on my 1.6 td pump. Of course the camplate and rotor don't fit together. Can i run my 1.6TD with the TDI cam plate or not?

burn_your_money · « **Reply #1 on:** February 24, 2009, 04:33:22 am »

You probably won't be able to use the factory 0.85-1.00mm setting for timing

Just to verify, you aren't planning on buying a Prothe pump are you?

arb · « **Reply #2 on:** February 24, 2009, 06:39:50 am »

Quote from: "burn_your_money"

You probably won't be able to use the factory 0.85-1.00mm setting for timing

Just to verify, you aren't planning on buying a Prothe pump are you?

And you did see the balancing act on the "new" turbo I bought from him?

foxracer1 · « **Reply #3 on:** February 24, 2009, 06:45:54 am »

I guess i should fill ya guys in. I have a 10mm TDI pump so as i'm resealing my 1.6 TD pump i decided to install the 10mm head and rotor. Obviously i've found the differences.

I pushed the pins out of the cam plates and am currently drilling my 1.6 plate out to fit the larger pin. I'm freezing the pin and gonna heat the plate so that it'll be press fit.

And i'm going to machine/grind down the "foot" of the plunger and clearence the opening on the camplate. I'm gonna make this work. I just don't feel the TDI camplate would be smart for the IDI.

Thanks for the opinions.

edit: just saw the pic of the turbo. WOW why would it need balanced to that degree?

arb · « **Reply #4 on:** February 24, 2009, 07:01:29 am »

Quote from: "foxracer1"

edit: just saw the pic of the turbo. WOW why would it need balanced to that degree?

My guess is a lazy production process - they forgot to balance it until they assembled it. Then, when they found it was way out of balance, they didn't want to ids-assemble it to balance it correctly. (on the parimeter of the turbine wheel.)

bert · « **Reply #5 on:** February 24, 2009, 10:33:58 am »

ARB that turbo is disgusting,hope you got a refund!!
Bert

Gtdmathers · « **Reply #6 on:** February 24, 2009, 02:47:22 pm »

Just bought this turbo off him

Think i got sent a bit more turbo ,only just[/img]

hope it makes it's way into this one day. Few issues with the engine , questions to follow later ![/img]

foxracer1 · « **Reply #7 on:** February 24, 2009, 03:21:58 pm »

Sweet lookin old rabbits! They look clean.

A friend just bought a set of 1mm over pistons from him. My friend said he thought they looked better than some of the pistons he's seen. So i don't know. But i'll keep ya posted. We are putting a no name (i think its chinese) 1.9 head on my old block with those pistons and the hybrid pump i'm building together. It's all going in my jetta. Hopefully they withstand my abuse.

Does the turbine housing look ok? I like that style wastegate better.

Also on the pump i just modified my camplate to fit the larger foot of the TDI plunger. Also installed the larger pin. Heated the plate a little and chilled the pin tapped it in. Should be good to go!

Gtdmathers · « **Reply #8 on:** February 24, 2009, 03:47:58 pm »

Hi , turbo looks spot on was really happy with it at first but not so sure now. Has anybody else used one on a 1.6 gtd .Sorry if this is heading away fron the original poll. Going to start a thread soon

foxracer1 · « **Reply #9 on:** February 24, 2009, 05:31:56 pm »

It's all relavent somehow.

rabbitman · « **Reply #10 on:** February 25, 2009, 01:30:37 pm »

Like Andrew says, it'll run, but I've heard they're quite rattley.

foxracer1 · « **Reply #11 on:** February 25, 2009, 03:07:44 pm »

Thanks guys. I am going to put this on a fresh engine so i'm not going to risk it. I just made the IDI cam plate work. It's going back together now.

Hey · « **Reply #12 on:** February 25, 2009, 03:17:23 pm »

it will run... will have lots more power, but you will need to balance the injector like tdi ones so that you still have 2 distinct injections.

If you don't adjust the pressure, it will clatter a lot. As for the timing, a 1.6td regulator, AAZ advance system and a tdi exit valve should work really good.... I compared the timing spec with esitronic and there is pretty much no difference between tdi and idi. When I modified my pump to make it m-tdi I only put a tdi exit valve and it worked great up to 4000tr.

At low RPM the tdi needs a little bit less timing but this is what the camplate change does. e.g. lowering timing at low RPM. SO you may need 1mm instead of .95mm

Tintin made a pump with a camplate between tdi and AAZ and the power is awsome. 10mm head, 12lbs of boost and a stock 020 clutch won't hold. The engine clatter a lot though... but the injectors were not pressure adjusted.

Changing the camplate has the same effect as installing a bigger head... e.g. shorter injection time

Also 0.95mm timing should work, but have the injector set at 200bar

foxracer1 · « **Reply #13 on:** February 25, 2009, 03:31:32 pm »

How should i balance the injectors? Raise the pop pressure? Or are you saying find some AAZ dual spring injectors that have 2 pop pressures?

Hey I read your pump build post and it was helpful. I set my KF setting in between the TD spec of 5.3 to 6.6. If i ran the TDI camplate would i need to use the TDI springs and KF setting spec?

I'll put the TDI plate in there and run it if it'll run better and not cause me problems. I'm always up for trying new stuff to find performance.

I'm tempted to take it back apart.

Hey · « **Reply #14 on:** February 26, 2009, 04:51:56 am »

Since you have a 1.6td, I think AAZ injector would be nice if they can be installed. If you use a tdi camplate, the injector will need a pop pressure around 220bar I think.

When you think about it, the 1.6 camplate is very soft, the injector are single spring and the engine clatter more than a 1.9td.

This is all because of the pre-injection in the cylinder. The 1.6 camplate is very slowly going up to allow for some sort of pre-injection (injection takes a long time) but the 1.9td really has a pre-injection because of the 2 springs and it clatter less than a 1.6 even if the camplate is sharper.

If you put a tdi camplate on a 1.9td it will clater a lot because the pre-injection won't be working anymore. 150bar is too low, the tdi injector are balanced to go along with the camplate at 220bar.

The new CRD have a pre-injection 10° or more before the full injection.. this is why these engines perform so well without any clatter and smoke.

When you put on a 10mm ou 11mm head, what you do is decrease the injection time so that more fuel will be injected at the moment where more power is created in the cylinder. Installing a camplate with faster lift does the same thing.

If you do that, you will need to modify the levers inside the pump as I explained in the post, have a spare lever if you decide to put it back. I never tried a tdi camplate with a 1.9td engine and 220bar td injector (wanted to do before I crak the head gasket and had my td changed with tdi pistons), but I tried a car with a sharper camplate (between tdi and td) and it performs much better than with a standard aaz campalte... clatter more at idle, but the injectors where not pop-adjusted.

For the KF spec, you can use the tdi springs with the washer if you use the tdi camplate, I think the kf setting is around 8.2-8.6mm. The tdi springs are softer, but longer.

If you change the pop pressure to 220bar, you might need to installe the delivery valves from a tdi pump.

Author Topic: Ok yes or no?.... Pump question. (Read 3170 times)

arb

arb