Opinions needed....

[boosted_diesel_84]

you might be able to run the custom MLS gasket without drilling holes in the head and block..but why not drill for the extra cooling and vapor it's REAL easy to do and a worth while mod IMHO...

i have it all torn down now, and my plan is to just tip the head back, slide out old gasket and slide the new one in, i dont want to pull it all apart to drill it, everything was just redone about 400 miles ago. so it wont need milled again. will i need to get a different gasket made since mine wont have the holes drilled? i am unfamiliar with the 1.9's

[53 willys]

you might be able to run the custom MLS gasket without drilling holes in the head and block..but why not drill for the extra cooling and vapor it's REAL easy to do and a worth while mod IMHO...

i have it all torn down now, and my plan is to just tip the head back, slide out old gasket and slide the new one in, i dont want to pull it all apart to drill it, everything was just redone about 400 miles ago. so it wont need milled again. will i need to get a different gasket made since mine wont have the holes drilled? i am unfamiliar with the 1.9's

I think the gasket I had them make should work with or with out the holes drilled...but i'm not 100% sure till I get it back...

man there is no way I would trust another fiber gasket on a uncleaned surface....mine only had about 300 miles on the rebuild and the fiber gasket made a mess of my surface mounting...no warped.....just dirty from the gasket....and if you go MLS you need or should have a even cleaner surface...with a mirror finish RA number..

if it was me I would take the extra 1 hour and do the cooling jacket mods...shoot you have done this much work on your engine, why not do it right the 2nd time? so your not in there for a 3rd?

[arb]

Sooooo.... any Ohio guys wanna come to tiffin and have a "lets change jacks headgasket party" there will be beer and maybe strippers. haha. the party has already started, i am tearing into it right now.

who on here was having the MLS gaskets made? wasnt there someting about a group buy? i want one now, 3 notch. let me know. thanks!!

Where are the party pics  :-D

I would have taken the head all the way off to be sure both surfaces were completely clean. Maybe something got on a surface first time around that allowed the leak to propagate.

[zukgod1]

I voted no as well.

Just bite the bullet and 53 willys says and do it right.
You wont regret it unless you cut corners then all bets are off.

I'm running the MLS gasket with ARPs to 95' lbs. I'm also running 30 psi dang near daily. I'm sure I'll eat another turbo but I haven't had a HG problem to date. Come to think of it I've not heard of anyone running the MLS HG having a problem regardless of what fastener is being used.

[53 willys]

I voted no as well.

Just bite the bullet and 53 willys says and do it right.
You wont regret it unless you cut corners then all bets are off.

I'm running the MLS gasket with ARPs to 95' lbs. I'm also running 30 psi dang near daily. I'm sure I'll eat another turbo but I haven't had a HG problem to date. Come to think of it I've not heard of anyone running the MLS HG having a problem regardless of what fastener is being used.

I think the only MLS failure I have read about on a VW diesel is "andy"(I think that was his name?) and his compounded set-up with like 40+ boost and who knows what the drive pressure was??

I think for most guys the MLS will fix any HG issues..

[Luckypabst]

I think the only MLS failure I have read about on a VW diesel is "andy"(I think that was his name?) and his compounded set-up with like 40+ boost and who knows what the drive pressure was??

I think for most guys the MLS will fix any HG issues..

Add me to the list - but for my own laziness. MLS HGs are apparently far more sensitive to head warp than fiber gaskets. Be fully certain that your head is within spec (and probably best to be on the low end of that spec) for flatness.

Chris

[53 willys]

I think the only MLS failure I have read about on a VW diesel is "andy"(I think that was his name?) and his compounded set-up with like 40+ boost and who knows what the drive pressure was??

I think for most guys the MLS will fix any HG issues..

Add me to the list - but for my own laziness. MLS HGs are apparently far more sensitive to head warp than fiber gaskets. Be fully certain that your head is within spec (and probably best to be on the low end of that spec) for flatness.

Chris

yes they are very sensitive... that's about the only down fall to a MLS gasket...the RA finish on the head and block need to be VERY flat and VERY smooth....

[rabbitman]

I say clean it good no matter what gasket your using.
I also voted no, I think once a gasket leaks it's toast, especially a gasket that's under high pressure.

[smutts]

Reading one of Dave Vizards books on race engines,-    Metal can be suprisingly elastic, monster torques on head fastenings can cause the bores to distort, discuss.

Also on some engines which pump coolant into the head first from the pump, the small head gasket coolant holes are there for a reason, to up the pressure in the head to raise the boiling point of the coolant there and prevent steam pockets at local hot spots. This doesn't apply here as coolant is pumped into the block first before transiting the head gasket into the head, then out to the radiator. But raising the coolant pressure in the block would make cavitation erosion less likely, discuss.

If you need a smooth sealing surface, the following method has done me fine.
1, Clean all the gasket crap and grot.
2, spray WD40 onto block surface, fairly thinly,
3, lay on head,
4, yank head,
5, look at resulting pattern,
6, where the oil is disturbed, the two components are touching,
7, with a really good flat VERY FINE oilstone work those areas of the head  LIGHTLY,
8, wipe clean, spray another fine coat of oil,
9, repeat a dozen times or so until the entire surface oil is disturbed when the head is placed on the block.
10, who knows which is "flat", but the crush on the head gasket is now dead even, and will seal a treat. Methalated Spirits to remove the oil before you apply the gasket.
11, If your head was REALLY warped, congratulations, you now have a perfect seal, pity the camshaft will now probably seize and snap the cambelt.  :twisted: There are limits.

The usual warnings apply, I am let out of the institution every other weekend, only a complete fool will try this, but it works for me. :wink:

[arb]

Reading one of Dave Vizards books on race engines,-    Metal can be suprisingly elastic, monster torques on head fastenings can cause the bores to distort, discuss.

Some race / aviation builders have a torque plate they bolt the block prior to boring / honing to induce the distortion. It is a thick slab of steel with the bores and head bolt holes in place.

[Luckypabst]

Straight from ARP's website:
"As a practical matter, the thread length is always selected so that the thread shear strength is -significantly greater than the bolt tension strength."

In other words, the stud will break before ripping threads out of the block.

Chris

[clbanman]

I can vouch for that.  I have done a fair bit of torque to failure testing at work, and the only time I have ever seen thread failure prior to fastener body failure it was directly attributed to the thread pitch diameter being so far off that when you put a bolt and nut together you could wiggle them around.  It ended up stripping off the inside 1/3 of the thread pitch on the nuts.

[arb]

Think about it this way - in the stud / bolt, the stress raiser is focusing all the stress to the center of the stub / bolt and overlaps with the stress all around it. On the block, the stress raiser is spreading out the stress in a much wider area. So, everything being equal, the stud/bold will fail first.

The stress raiser is the bottom of the valley the "V" forms.

[Luckypabst]

BTW, if you want exact TQ, you need to know how much TQ it takes to get the bolt moving again. IE if it takes 15 ft/lbs, then if I retighten mine from 50 --> 65 I would have really done nothing.

Typically for a re-torque you need to back off the fastener a little bit (1/4 turn, according to Victor-Reinz) before bringing it up to the final torque. Also, V-R confirms the statement that the MLS gasket (for VW) needs no re-torque, though mine did take another 1/8 turn after a full heat cycle - chalk it up to torque wrench tolerance?

Chris