Author Topic: Giles, modify a TDI pump, already! (Read 19612 times)

QuickTD · « **Reply #15 on:** July 06, 2005, 09:36:15 pm »

Quote

There was a pump timing / high RPM discussion on tdiclub.com a while ago, although there wasn't much content:

Sadly, a lack of content is pretty much a TDIClub theme these days, thats why you'll mostly find me here...

After reading Des's post though, maybe he's onto something. If the timing does in fact end at 17º, modifying the housing to allow more advance could yield a bit more power at high speed, with appropriate software of course. As was posted, the theoretical range is about 24º crankshaft but the first few degrees are likely wasted, applied as the engine cranks and housing pressure builds, just like in the IDI's. Perhaps shimming/changing the spring or dropping the housing pressure and just advancing the static timing to compensate would give the needed headroom. I'll leave you to experiment...

You still have to consider the speed that these engines already run in stock trim, its pretty much the upper reach of any diesel. What do the truck guys do to get the torque up at high rpm?

lord_verminaard · « **Reply #16 on:** July 07, 2005, 06:55:19 am »

Quote from: "QuickTD"

Quote
There was a pump timing / high RPM discussion on tdiclub.com a while ago, although there wasn't much content:

Sadly, a lack of content is pretty much a TDIClub theme these days, thats why you'll mostly find me here...

Yeah, me too. it also takes too darn long to read anything over at TDIclub now, besides the array of posts that dont add anything the forum is darn slow to boot.

Quote

You still have to consider the speed that these engines already run in stock trim, its pretty much the upper reach of any diesel. What do the truck guys do to get the torque up at high rpm?

That's a good question, as I'm pretty sure the Cummins engines are direct-injected, and I know some of them are getting 5000+ rpm's out of them. If only it was as easy as the IDI's, just mod the govenor and away you go.

But at the same time, they arent using computer controlled pumps (with the exception of the newer ones) so there is probably some tricks they can do internally just like our IDI's to make that kind of powerband. How much work would it be to yank the ECU out of a Mk4 TDI and replace it with a mechanical pump and still have everything work? :twisted: Probaby more effort than it's worth.

Brendan
84 Scirocco 8v
00 Camaro L36 M49

RedRotors · « **Reply #17 on:** July 07, 2005, 08:34:37 am »

I have a 1994 Dodge Cummins, bonestock ( for the moment ), the truck start to defuel around 2300 rpm. Most of guys add stronger governor sprint kit ( 3000 or 4000 rpm ). Only with this, and a new fuel plate, new d-valves, you can easily add up to 100hp. Add bigger injectors and raise the boost around 40psi and you`r good for a 350hp/700ftlbs and a new clutch.. :lol: This is my goal.

On cummins papers, it says that we don't cross 5000rpm, that the engine
will 'desintegrate'. I know that sled puller rev their around 5k, but not for a long time.

Marc/

Smog · « **Reply #18 on:** July 08, 2005, 09:50:08 am »

Quote from: "malone"

I agree. The only mechanical limit is the displacement, which can be increased with a bigger head/plunger. There is no mechanical governor and the advance and injected quantity are both controlled by software.

Someone I know is CNCing a custom timing cap for the TDI pump to physically allow more timing advance. Of course, software will be modified to take advantage of the new timing range. [/quote]

the cap is not what will limit the timing device; there's a sloted hole inside the pump that prevent the timing ring to rotate more than 18 degs. with the bigger plunger, this is the only mod available for the tdi pump.

vwmike · « **Reply #19 on:** July 08, 2005, 03:25:49 pm »

Quote from: "RedRotors"

Quote from: "vwmike"
What was that pump head intended for? I can get 12mm pump heads fairly cheap. They're supposed to be for a cummins, but I don't see why they wouldn't fit.

The head im using is a direct swap. Cummins head dosen't fits. The place where the spring guide pins sit is not the same. I order them in Europe.

Marc/

For the sake of arguement, are the earlier VW VE pump heads dimensionally the same? As in would it be possible to swap a 10mm TDI pump head onto an IDI 9mm pump?

QuickTD · « **Reply #20 on:** July 08, 2005, 10:56:46 pm »

Quote

For the sake of arguement, are the earlier VW VE pump heads dimensionally the same? As in would it be possible to swap a 10mm TDI pump head onto an IDI 9mm pump?

Not quite. I was told the the TDI plunger is slightly different at the base where it fits the camplate. It will work with late model 1.9TD ('95 and up) pumps that have the 20mm shaft but not with older pumps that have the 17mm driveshaft. Maybe with a camplate change they could be swapped.

Redrotors or Smog, feel free to correct me. I don't have very complete info since you guys won't share that parts catalog...

I'd like to get a larger plunger and head set up on an extra pump but all my spare 1.9 pumps are the 17mm type and I don't want to tear apart my only 20mm pump, it's bolted to my daily driver...

Smog · « **Reply #21 on:** July 09, 2005, 07:55:04 am »

Quote from: "QuickTD"

[Not quite. I was told the the TDI plunger is slightly different at the base where it fits the camplate. It will work with late model 1.9TD ('95 and up) pumps that have the 20mm shaft but not with older pumps that have the 17mm driveshaft. Maybe with a camplate change they could be swapped. ...

only Redrotors got the catalogue

but please show me a 1.9td pump with a 20mm shaft; I never been able to see one of them; it look like another internet misinformation.

the TDI plunger or the td camplate need to be modified to use them together. it has been done before.

RedRotors · « **Reply #22 on:** July 09, 2005, 02:12:22 pm »

Bruce, If your pump number is " NR 0 460 494 373 " or easier, you have the slotted pump pulley, to ajust the timing instead of moving the pump, the 10mm tdi head is bolt on. My friend run is 1.9TD with a 10mm pump that i built for him last year and he's driving his car real hard. no problem yet.

If it's not the case, the plunger won't sit in the camplate. You can enlarge the camplate seat with a die grinder but IMO it's not recommended.

Cheers,
Marc/

QuickTD · « **Reply #23 on:** July 09, 2005, 09:00:41 pm »

I am wrong on the 20mm shaft, now that I think of it they take the same seal as all the other pumps, 17mm. I have changed them before. I apologize for the "misinformation".

I'm thinking of the pump body diameter where it fits the bracket, the late model pump is larger and won't fit the older style bracket.

I do have a few other IDI pumps kicking around that do have 20mm shafts. The diesel kiki bosch licence pumps on the ford escort 2.0l diesel are 20mm, for what reason I have no idea. I have a couple of those, not very useful... They only have an 8mm plunger and they are reverse rotation.

Mine is a 97, and has the slotted pulley but I'd like to put together a complete pump from one of my spares (which are all the old style) and swap the whole thing rather than pull my pump and install the new head.

Marc, will the camplate from a late pump fit fit the earlier models? Maybe that would be the way to go. I don't do die grinder work. I like to machine it with precision or don't bother...

Do you guys (Luc or Marc) have any 10,11 or 12mm head/rotor sets for sale? I could be interested. :twisted:

vwmike · « **Reply #24 on:** July 10, 2005, 03:50:10 am »

If I can come up with a sample, I can have the pump head manufactured.....just a thought.

RedRotors · « **Reply #25 on:** July 10, 2005, 09:34:16 am »

Bruce,

Yes, the camplate will fits on earlier pump. Unfortunatly, i don't have any 10,11,or 12mm in stock.. I'll let you know if i come up with one.

Cheers,
Marc/

Slave2School · « **Reply #26 on:** July 12, 2005, 02:29:13 pm »

Hey Red

What do you think I am putting out with the 12mm and some .205's (.208 actual) and my evry turned on

It feels quite substantial even with the auto, or should I say especially with the auto, as the thing shifts much fast than I ever could in my previous 5spds.

I would hazard a guess that as grossly overfueled as it is it is putting out north of 115WHP, but I wasn wondering if you'd have a better idea, or perhaps used the VAG-com to "dyno" your set up so I might have a ball park figure.

Thanks!

PS-I LOVE the POWER I highly recommend this mod to anyone who happens to have had their pump die on them like me, or has more money to burn on TDI upgrades

RAMMSTEIN · « **Reply #27 on:** September 19, 2005, 11:27:54 pm »

How high are you EGT's Slave2school? :?:

Slave2School · « **Reply #28 on:** September 26, 2005, 06:35:01 pm »

I really couldn't tell you that, but...Based on what other people are doing with even more fueling, I doubt I am in any danger or hurting anything, especially since I don't tow a trailer or something with the evry on

I would like to know though just for my own interest. I have it tuned so that without the evry on, the only time there is any visible black puff of smoke from the car is when it is cold, and with the evry on the is a small black wispy trail...anymore than that seems to make no difference to "power" but pursuades tailgaters to move on. I highly doubt that I am approaching the 900C limit, and I never hold my foot to the rug for more than 10 seconds or so (there isn't any need in the real world).

Maybe the best question would be...What do you thinkmy EGT's are running as I described above

The only people I hear of running into EGT problems are people like Beta with a Vanagon synchro vnt-17 RC3, nozzles, etc... I've got to think that even if I were towing a trailer my car is working less and fueling less.

fastforward.ca has featured a few vanagon conversions, latest is an auto and they say the EGT's are well under the max limit for the TDI turbo.

SuperTurbo · « **Reply #29 on:** January 19, 2007, 01:10:45 am »

Hi guys!

I am pretty new to diesel......

If it is a silly question, please tell me! :oops:

What is the rev limit on a diesel engine anyways?? Base on my understanding, if I rev the engine more than 4500rpm, it's pretty much pointless due to Diesel fuel itself need more time to combust itself...

In here, seems like 5000rpm is OK for a diesel too.... Is it OK to tell me what type of fuel are you guys using, and what type of treatment do you guys do??

Thanks