Author Topic: Is Ceramic coating pistons worth it?  (Read 10728 times)

Reply #15August 22, 2008, 02:00:12 pm

monomer

  • Veteran

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 414
Is Ceramic coating pistons worth it?
« Reply #15 on: August 22, 2008, 02:00:12 pm »
Quote from: "Jet A"


Drop $8000 into your 1.6l and i bet it sings a pretty little number too!!!
 :twisted:


the car as it sits has that much parts and work in it....



almost
-1983 Rabbit LX 1.6/1.9 VNT build


Michigan Volkswagen Enthusiasts
www.michiganvw.org

Reply #16August 22, 2008, 02:01:05 pm

jimfoo

  • Veteran

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 2110
    • http://www.66rover.com
Is Ceramic coating pistons worth it?
« Reply #16 on: August 22, 2008, 02:01:05 pm »
I believe Jake, FSPGTD, was making 250+HP if I remember right, but he never found a way to keep the head sealed as it kept lifting at those pressures. I think he tried o-ringing it, copper gaskets, the works at one point or another.
Jim
1966 Land-Rover 88" with 1.9 1Z which has been transformed to an M-TDI
TFO35 mechanically controlled VNT, IC , and 2.5" exhaust.
Driven daily

Reply #17August 22, 2008, 02:24:22 pm

monomer

  • Veteran

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 414
Is Ceramic coating pistons worth it?
« Reply #17 on: August 22, 2008, 02:24:22 pm »
Quote from: "jimfoo"
I believe Jake, FSPGTD, was making 250+HP if I remember right, but he never found a way to keep the head sealed as it kept lifting at those pressures. I think he tried o-ringing it, copper gaskets, the works at one point or another.


I wish he would chime in.


any links for this build?
-1983 Rabbit LX 1.6/1.9 VNT build


Michigan Volkswagen Enthusiasts
www.michiganvw.org

Reply #18August 22, 2008, 02:45:51 pm

jimfoo

  • Veteran

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 2110
    • http://www.66rover.com
Is Ceramic coating pistons worth it?
« Reply #18 on: August 22, 2008, 02:45:51 pm »
You'd have to search his username. He hasn't been on in quite a while
Jim
1966 Land-Rover 88" with 1.9 1Z which has been transformed to an M-TDI
TFO35 mechanically controlled VNT, IC , and 2.5" exhaust.
Driven daily

Reply #19August 22, 2008, 03:57:29 pm

Jet A

  • Junior

  • Offline
  • **

  • 125
Is Ceramic coating pistons worth it?
« Reply #19 on: August 22, 2008, 03:57:29 pm »
Quote from: "monomer"
Quote from: "Jet A"


Drop $8000 into your 1.6l and i bet it sings a pretty little number too!!!
 :twisted:


the car as it sits has that much parts and work in it....



almost


I was talking straight motor, and machining time. No labor.

Sounds like a badass ride deserving of 200+hp
Got any pics?
85 vw golf NA ----> 2b TD  Daily Driver
Converted to hydraulic head (Thanks zukgod1)
td04 turbo, Zex nitrous (for the big hills), PITA motor, fresh rings w/ ceramic pistons.
Custom Intake and Exhaust
Ported and polished head
Dipricol EGT, FP, Boost,
Autometer, Oil Temp, Water Pressure

Reply #20August 22, 2008, 06:05:47 pm

Smokey Eddy

  • Veteran

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 3468
    • McScrubbins Body Wash
Is Ceramic coating pistons worth it?
« Reply #20 on: August 22, 2008, 06:05:47 pm »
this is border line lunacy.
I'm struggling to get my IP retimed let a lone 250+ hp. What do you plan to do with that?

I'd suggest not running the motor "upped" at all until you get bigger exhaust + EGT. It's not uncommon to accidentally cook your head and turbo (as im sure you've been told) because of a little extra fuel/boost. I almost did and i haven't done any mods really. Just wastegate/blow off valve + fuel screw/boost pin/govenor mod
Ed
Blacked out mk2 AAZ Jetta RIP. You are missed.
White 1999.5 ALH Golf 2dr. Low & wide. Rammed off the road RIP.
Blue 2009 CR140 Jetta CBEA/CJAA. Malone stage 2. EGR/DPF/Exhaust-valve deletes. 2.5" open exhaust. ADP Turbo swap. 1-stage nitrous kit. THROWN ROD

Reply #21August 23, 2008, 03:27:51 am

monomer

  • Veteran

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 414
Is Ceramic coating pistons worth it?
« Reply #21 on: August 23, 2008, 03:27:51 am »
Quote from: "Smokey Eddy"
this is border line lunacy.
I'm struggling to get my IP retimed let a lone 250+ hp. What do you plan to do with that?

I'd suggest not running the motor "upped" at all until you get bigger exhaust + EGT. It's not uncommon to accidentally cook your head and turbo (as im sure you've been told) because of a little extra fuel/boost. I almost did and i haven't done any mods really. Just wastegate/blow off valve + fuel screw/boost pin/govenor mod


autocross/road racing.


I'm over building EVERYTHING in hope to keep it togeather.
-1983 Rabbit LX 1.6/1.9 VNT build


Michigan Volkswagen Enthusiasts
www.michiganvw.org

Reply #22August 24, 2008, 10:32:58 pm

Jet A

  • Junior

  • Offline
  • **

  • 125
Is Ceramic coating pistons worth it?
« Reply #22 on: August 24, 2008, 10:32:58 pm »
W/ 250 hp, its not just the motor your going to have to worry about. your gunna need motor mounts, at least some good new ones. and possible something to keep the motor from torquing hard and tearing itself around.

I would say the three largest problems will be stock cooling system, stock oiling system and EGT's

How are you doing your fueling system? bigger ip i assume? bigger head?

Will our pumps even support than kind of HP?


What did you ever decide to do on the pistons. I should have mine back end of these weeks, I will be sure to report my findings of quality.
85 vw golf NA ----> 2b TD  Daily Driver
Converted to hydraulic head (Thanks zukgod1)
td04 turbo, Zex nitrous (for the big hills), PITA motor, fresh rings w/ ceramic pistons.
Custom Intake and Exhaust
Ported and polished head
Dipricol EGT, FP, Boost,
Autometer, Oil Temp, Water Pressure

Reply #23August 25, 2008, 05:43:11 am

arb

  • Guest
Is Ceramic coating pistons worth it?
« Reply #23 on: August 25, 2008, 05:43:11 am »
a stock 5.9 turbo ? Are you sure you'll have enough volume from the 1.9L to spool it up? I would think you'd need to put a smaller hot section on it.

Reply #24August 25, 2008, 06:50:08 am

Pat Dolan

  • Junior

  • Offline
  • **

  • 163
Is Ceramic coating pistons worth it?
« Reply #24 on: August 25, 2008, 06:50:08 am »
Ditto on the 5.9 turbo.  You will have so little gas volume that you might have trouble "getting it up" (so to speak), but in no undertain terms, you will have lag that makes it pretty much useless for autoslalom competition.  Also, the 020 will not live at those torque levels.
lifetime VW enthusiast, racer, fixer, addict, etc.
'03 TDI Variant, MkII Golf Country, Mk1 and II Scirocco (gassers), a Vanagon aircooled, an Audi 2.0 TD waiting to become a Porsche TD (in my M471 924), FLD120/DDEC IV, Ford 7.3/450, Iveco D220 and some 6D14T Mitsus and a few more.

Reply #25August 25, 2008, 01:18:52 pm

monomer

  • Veteran

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 414
Is Ceramic coating pistons worth it?
« Reply #25 on: August 25, 2008, 01:18:52 pm »
Quote from: "Jet A"
W/ 250 hp, its not just the motor your going to have to worry about. your gunna need motor mounts, at least some good new ones. and possible something to keep the motor from torquing hard and tearing itself around.

I would say the three largest problems will be stock cooling system, stock oiling system and EGT's

How are you doing your fueling system? bigger ip i assume? bigger head?

Will our pumps even support than kind of HP?


What did you ever decide to do on the pistons. I should have mine back end of these weeks, I will be sure to report my findings of quality.


-Oil cooler will come off of a Mercedes 300D
-Stock fan system will be replaced completely, Radiator should be good enough.
-Giles pump and injectors
-Delron Bushings (I can turn them myself) along with delron shifter bushings aswell

1.9L head (port/polished) stock turbo exhaust manifold and gasser intake will be used (until I have funds for sheet metal intake and equal length exhaust with cutoff.)

The turbo is a VNT. I may go with a smaller one - depends on availability. TiAl 38mm Wastegate will be used to limit boost. VNT will have a pressure-wastegate setup. VDO EGT probe and gauge, aswell as a 4bar boost gauge (and then oil pressure/temp, and coolant temp)




I'm still looking for a local shop to do the pistons. I'm going to wait until the head gets here, maybe I'll coat everything and be done with it.

If this car wasnt in such nice, rust-free condition, I would have never done all of this. It's a cali car, garaged for 10 years here in MI (honestly, I've never seen another one like it here) engine needed to be rebuilt, so these are all "while I'm here" add-ons....
-1983 Rabbit LX 1.6/1.9 VNT build


Michigan Volkswagen Enthusiasts
www.michiganvw.org

Reply #26August 26, 2008, 06:12:50 am

Pat Dolan

  • Junior

  • Offline
  • **

  • 163
Is Ceramic coating pistons worth it?
« Reply #26 on: August 26, 2008, 06:12:50 am »
I have seen literally melted all four ALH TDI pistons on an engine I built last year (the owner's kid drove the crap out of it before we even had a chance to dial in ANYTHING after initial startup).  Believe me, the coatings can't hurt (we are using SwainTech now for the crowns, of course, the stock skirt coatings on PD 150 slugs).  If you go anywhere NEAR what you want for power, you will be thermally loading the crown and rings to something near their limit.  You might also consider a bigger oil pump and piston cooling nozzles (which is why we have the PD150 pistons...internal oil cooling passages for the piston crown).

You might also re-think the VDO EGT choice.  We were anything but impressed with VDO accuracy and response time, and have gone on to much better things (Doniol custom in-cluster gauge & 52mm McNally production stuff).
lifetime VW enthusiast, racer, fixer, addict, etc.
'03 TDI Variant, MkII Golf Country, Mk1 and II Scirocco (gassers), a Vanagon aircooled, an Audi 2.0 TD waiting to become a Porsche TD (in my M471 924), FLD120/DDEC IV, Ford 7.3/450, Iveco D220 and some 6D14T Mitsus and a few more.

Reply #27August 26, 2008, 01:58:37 pm

monomer

  • Veteran

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 414
Is Ceramic coating pistons worth it?
« Reply #27 on: August 26, 2008, 01:58:37 pm »
Quote from: "Pat Dolan"
I have seen literally melted all four ALH TDI pistons on an engine I built last year (the owner's kid drove the crap out of it before we even had a chance to dial in ANYTHING after initial startup).  Believe me, the coatings can't hurt (we are using SwainTech now for the crowns, of course, the stock skirt coatings on PD 150 slugs).  If you go anywhere NEAR what you want for power, you will be thermally loading the crown and rings to something near their limit.  You might also consider a bigger oil pump and piston cooling nozzles (which is why we have the PD150 pistons...internal oil cooling passages for the piston crown).

You might also re-think the VDO EGT choice.  We were anything but impressed with VDO accuracy and response time, and have gone on to much better things (Doniol custom in-cluster gauge & 52mm McNally production stuff).


it is getting oil squirters, newer (high-flow) oil pump.

I'll shop around for the gauges, not important as of yet.
-1983 Rabbit LX 1.6/1.9 VNT build


Michigan Volkswagen Enthusiasts
www.michiganvw.org

Reply #28August 26, 2008, 02:19:37 pm

burnt_servo

  • Veteran

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 278
Is Ceramic coating pistons worth it?
« Reply #28 on: August 26, 2008, 02:19:37 pm »
off the top of my head ... 250hp ........ ???!!!??!!

the tranny is reliable up to around 150 hp .

the rad alone will have to be at least 3 to 4 times bigger than the stock rad .

the lsit of things that would need to be reengineered is almost endless , if 250 hp was possible for more than a few moments .
1990 jetta , tweaked pump , tweaked turbo , ported head  2.5inch exhaust .

1993 dodge w250 , diesel ... removing the dead moose parts .

Reply #29August 26, 2008, 02:23:22 pm

monomer

  • Veteran

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 414
Is Ceramic coating pistons worth it?
« Reply #29 on: August 26, 2008, 02:23:22 pm »
Quote from: "burnt_servo"
off the top of my head ... 250hp ........ ???!!!??!!

the tranny is reliable up to around 150 hp .

the rad alone will have to be at least 3 to 4 times bigger than the stock rad .

the lsit of things that would need to be reengineered is almost endless , if 250 hp was possible for more than a few moments .


250 is doable. I'm gonna go for atleast 150 this season.




anyone have the thread with the oil squirters bookmarked? I need the part #'s and cant find the thread...
-1983 Rabbit LX 1.6/1.9 VNT build


Michigan Volkswagen Enthusiasts
www.michiganvw.org