Author Topic: has 1.6tdi been done? (Read 24048 times)

gigaz2 · « **on:** May 10, 2008, 02:39:49 pm »

hi guys, I had done a lot of reading, measuring, and comparing manufacturers catalogs and I think I can do it while parts for my 5cyl project don't arrive.

I know Prothe is planning to do it, but, does it run already?

itzdshtz · « **Reply #1 on:** May 11, 2008, 11:36:54 pm »

I have two 5 cyl engines that I would like to convert to TDI also, bought TDI cylinder heads, injectors and injection pumps.

Hope that Prothe's pistons come available, I think that he is using the pistons from a Renault Clio or Suzuki 1,5 Jimny diesel, may have to fly-cut the valve pockets in the pistons as on Renault pistons they are all the same.

Another option would be to buy pistons from the Audi A2 1,2 TDI.

I think that this will make a great engine for a Vanagon, high revving and easier on the transmission than the 2,5 TDI

Herman

RabbitGTDguy · « **Reply #2 on:** May 12, 2008, 06:49:05 am »

Herman,

Good luck getting Prothe to answer any questions about his products. The pistons he was locating to do the 1.6 "TDI" were chinese made pistons... he has also asked several question on here that would make me "question" whether he is just trying to piece meal this thing together. Also, recently...I asked for more information on his OS pistons for TDI's (quality, manufacturer, etc) and got no response... and the responses I did received (re: posting questions about them on other sights...objective as well) where met with questionable results.

If I were you and looking into this, I would def. try to find something OEM (not nessarily VW...you could look at Renault, etc) that would fit with the bores and be direct injected and go from there. To date...I still have not seen one "done". It would be interesting though.

Joe

gigaz2 · « **Reply #3 on:** May 12, 2008, 07:57:52 am »

I called "my" shop and have two renault engines with valvetrain issues waiting for me

, they were being scrapped in a few days.

this is a double gift as my other project (gas clio 1.4) may benifit from the crank or block

(stoker, turbo or both)

the pistons would be throughly machined as I want the engine to VWM specs. (lower compression, the winter here never goes below 0

)

as is already proven time and time again, the block will hold substancial power, and if I don't overdo it on the torque levels, so will the connecting rods.

itzdshtz: what engines do you have as base to convert?

gigaz2 · « **Reply #4 on:** May 12, 2008, 09:35:32 am »

a bit off topic here, but I would require some tdi valves for this and for my 5cyl tdi project. I am weary about the parts coming from the US because of the customs roulette game.

back ontopic: I know the stock renault parts are 0.5mm smaller than the stock 1.6, but these are free, and I believe I cant mock it up and even start it like this.
then buy the real thing.

itzdshtz · « **Reply #5 on:** May 12, 2008, 01:52:13 pm »

gigaz2, both engines that I have are Audi 5 cyl TD engines, engine type DE.

Lets not get too critical about Prothe, his prices are great and he is taking a risk with this conversion also.

Herman

RabbitGTDguy · « **Reply #6 on:** May 12, 2008, 02:22:27 pm »

We'll leave it to the feedback forum when things come back another way. As a vendor, and a good one. Usually they will answer emails about their product in order to back it up. However, I have inquired a couple times...different occasions about things and never receive anything. Also, do a little digging on TDIClub as well.
Prothe, does not do this...but, to each his own. Also, the reference to Chinese pistons was re: your 1.9 DI pistons....not any others...
It would be nice to reference this on your site for your buyers. You'll save yourself alot of inquires by answers those simple questions.
Re: good prices... you get what you pay for....

Back on topic...

If your using OEM parts, thats great! I'm sure it will be a successful end product. Sleeving a VW block is a daunting task...and risky, both the shops I have had to block work for me said they would never sleeve them given the limited room in the block without the block integrity of the cylinder walls being compromised the the thinning of the walls potentially running into oil and coolant passages.
However, finding OEM's (from any manfacturer....beware of chinese pistons) close the the bore of the stock 1.6 block would be excellent...especially if they could be found within the OVERSIZE tolerances of the 1.6 block. Yes, any project like this needs and will be well thought out. It would be impressive completed the "right" way.

gigaz2 · « **Reply #7 on:** May 12, 2008, 03:14:17 pm »

the problem see this side of the pond is that 0.5mm difference between the pistons I already have, and my test block witch I don't know the true bore, could be 76.5, or it may have been bored to the max already

assuming the best, could I get away with a 76.5 block and 76mm pistons?

itzdshtz · « **Reply #8 on:** May 12, 2008, 04:54:36 pm »

Hi gigas2, no, that is way too much clearance, you will have to sleeve your block or find bigger pistons.

Herman

gigaz2 · « **Reply #9 on:** May 12, 2008, 09:24:02 pm »

I have two K9K 1.5 DCI. and two VW blocks, a 1984 JR and a 1990 RA/SB.

good investment on the european warehouse

import duties suck!

I loved Prague, must go back someday.

RabbitGTDguy · « **Reply #10 on:** May 12, 2008, 10:24:46 pm »

Quote from: "prothe"

Hey RabbitGTDguy, have you ever tried to get any answers whatsoever out of Bosch?

None of my pistons come from China, but if they did, SO WHAT? If I've sold a few hundred of them without a single long term complaint, isn't that more important?

LOL :roll: you have a PM Prothe... and most others would agree that have been around here for a while.
However, the topic for you other guys is really good and quite viable. Be careful who you trust though....do some research

and you'll find the answers. However...not to muddy posts...

:arrow: :arrow: :arrow:

It'll be great to see someone come up with the 1.6 variation in DI form. Don't know whether sleeving is the best route for the block though. Again...addressed that above. I think its interesting how someone would buy "sleeves" for an engine that he isn't sure whether it can be done too? Hmm...
However (and I believe this is mentioned above as well), if money is not a limiting factor, there are machine shops that will make custom pistons for you. In this particular configuration and the possiblilties of the RPM's you could possibly pull from the motor potentially...I would def. look at custom rods as well and if not some other cyro treatments to other parts of the motor.
HP is important, and the old IDI's have proven that they can support that....but the added benefit on the DI motors without getting really technical ( and where there engineering comes in) is the torque that they produce.

itzdshtz · « **Reply #11 on:** May 12, 2008, 11:34:23 pm »

Quote

Has anyone sleeved a cylinder? I bought cylinder sleeves with the objective of selling them to people who want a really low budget engine rebuild.

I have replaced sleeves in Ford diesels and Mercedes Benz engines, really hard to press them out and in, you need the correct tools and a big press.
I have some sleeves here that I still have to install, they are for a Mitsubishi 4D55T diesel, these engines come with sleeves from the factory.
The wall thickness is only 1.4 MM, no collar on the top, just a straight sleeve.

To have a machine shop install a sleeve is not cheap, the cylinder bore has to be machined to the correct size and after it is pressed in, the new sleeve has to be honed to the piston size.
I know somebody that had his sleeves replaced in an 4 cyl engine and it cost him around $300.00 for just the labour.

So to convert an IDI engine to TDI and sleeve the block for the new piston size is going to cost a few extra bucks, too bad that they don't come in 77.00 MM or 77.50 MM.

Prothe, what is the OD on the sleeves that you supply for the 1.6 IDI?

Herman

jtanguay · « **Reply #12 on:** May 13, 2008, 07:39:11 am »

I think having the TDI head & injectors will be the most expensive part of the project...

but having to sleeve the block will probably turn off quite a few people

gigaz2 · « **Reply #13 on:** May 13, 2008, 08:44:23 am »

remember that sleeving is for those whose block is out of spec, and as Prothe said there are pistons in other oversizes.

in my case I would have to sleeve, because the pistons I got (free) were 76mm

jimfoo · « **Reply #14 on:** May 13, 2008, 08:45:56 am »

Yeah, used injectors are the way to go as new ones cost twice what a new OEM head runs. Then you need the unobtanium(except from dealer) AHU injector lines or bend ALH ones. Prothe's head is relatively inexpensive but is bare, and is set up for the harder to find 8mm valves although new 7mm guides can fix that