G-Teched my 1.6TD - Baseline Runs

[DVST8R]

How did you run a 2.5" exhaust, did you cut off the stock toilet bowl and weld it on the 2.5" exhaust, or did you make a new downpipe as well?

Thanks,
Ray

As soon as Mark decideds to post up the pics you will see how we did it.  

[malone]

Hey I just got home an hour ago. I was barely home since Saturday and I don't have FTP access from work to upload pics. Anyway, I managed to download pics from the camera, resize them, and host them. Here we go.. from start to end:

On a scale:




DVST8R's shop in beautiful Chilliwack, BC:


Getting lifted:





Some people may cringe at the sight, but the lift was very stable.





Some parts for the exhaust:


3" straight pipe in the background:


Doing some lining up:




Pipe cutting:


Downpipe being welded:






Dave giving a hand:


We drilled a hole in the exhaust manifold to tap+screw in a probe for the pyrometer/EGT gauge:






Exhaust manifold for my TDI. Brett drilled and tapped it for a EGT probe.




This is one of my spare pumps that we disassembled on Monday to help us diagnose the leaking problem:



Underside shot of the new downpipe installed:


Exhaust system installed:








Some pictures of the boost stuff: Dave's #51 boost pin (left) versus my #72 boost pin (right):








My starwheel spring (left) versus Dave's spring (right):




Went to a yard to find a boost solenoid:




My 1.6TD boost hoses, the solenoid is visible on the very left of the picture:


Ghettofabulous gauge install  




On the left of the boost gauge is a pressure switch. I can actually adjust max. boost from the inside of the car. Who needs a fancy looking $269 USD electronic boost controller?


Currently waiting for the radio delete panel, which will be used to house the gauges.

Last saturday's cruise (my TD was stock at the time):


edit: fixed pictures.

[malone]

Yeah we made a new downpipe, which is all 2.5 mandrel bent, than to 3 inch no cat no muffler mandrel exhaust. I was there sunday to help mark and brett out I learnt a lot about the injection pumps, pertty sure brett and I took apart marks like 10 times. Tomorrow brett and I are gonna make a downpipe, and maybe the rest of my exhaust. In the next month there are definately gonna be some way fast TD's in chilliwack. Mark, I wanna buy a g tech, what can you tell me about them? cost? reliability ect? the tach seemed pretty acurate so I am thinking maybe I could use one as a tach for the time being? You can email me the info or pm thanks.

Hey Dave, thanks a lot for helping out I can come by in a couple weeks when your TD's getting tuned.

http://www.gtechpro.com - I have the RR model. The website will show you the difference between the SS and RR. I used to have the standard sub-$50.USD G-Tech Pro that was released in 1994 or so - it does not display torque (just horsepower). You also cannot download data from it to your computer and display a dyno graph. The RPM cannot be manually calibrated either. This is why I prefer the newer model.

G-Tech Pro Competition may be okay (similar to SS/RR).

I got my RR brand new from ebay several months ago for about $20 USD less than MSRP.

Cheers,
Mark

[QuickTD]

I love the big drill press in the background, seriously. The shape of the main column casting is fantastic, it looks like a tree. They don't build stuff that looks like that anymore. You should paint that thing up and put flames on it.

[fspGTD]

Wow - downpipe welding, pump disassembling, EGT probe installing... when you guys get together, you have a heyday...  looks like fun!  Thanks for sharing the pics.

Regarding RPM sensing troubles using the G-tech - try turning on the lights and/or air blower.  Then recalibrate the RPMs with those electrical accessories on and take your runs with them on also.  I found the G-tech gets a better RPM signal on some cars when there are some electrical accessories turned on.

The only difference between the Competition and the RR is the color of the plastic and in some cases the backlighting, and they don't sell the Competition anymore.  My G-tech is a black competition model with blue backlighting, that originally came with firmware 1.0.0 (now upgraded to the latest RR firmware)

[malone]

I thought the old school drill press was neat too

Jake, we already did that for the RPM sensor. Hazard, headlights, fan (full power), and rear defrost were all on. The RPM sensor doesn't seem to be the problem. The G-Tech read the RPM perfectly fine and smoothly from idle at 1,000RPM all the way to redline. It must be something else, perhaps the accelerometers.

I even got 21-22 second 1/4 mile time reported by G-Tech, which was odd.

When my TD was stock (best time 18.8 in 1/4 mile, averaged 19.3) it can barely keep up with my 1997 1.8L 8v Golf (~78whp, ~2800lb with driver, does mid 18's), but on Monday evening after the mods my TD ripped past the Golf driven by the same driver (a friend of mine). Very noticable increase in power/speed. So far 4 people have ridden in my car and they easily noticed, too.

When I get home tonight I'll post G-Tech dyno plots to show the big dip in the mid-RPM range.

[DVST8R]

I love the big drill press in the background, seriously. The shape of the main column casting is fantastic, it looks like a tree. They don't build stuff that looks like that anymore. You should paint that thing up and put flames on it.

If you look closely you can see the 4 speed gearbox out of an old ford truck, that controls head speed. We love that press too, Earl who owns the company could have put any drill press he wanted in there, but chose this one as it is one of the most acurate, least vibrating, no wandering, drill press's we have ever used. It was cast in the '30's as I recall the head and chuck are nearly new and other pieces have been upgraded as need be.

As for flames earl is dead set against anything with flames on it, he thinks painted flames always look like "crab claws"

Dave is coming over tonight so that we can do the downpipe and exhaust, on his caddy with a TD motor. Then he is coming back when I return from Edmonton, and when he has his gauges to do the rest of the mods. Unfortunately I don't have a camera, so unless Dave does or Mark wants to make the drive again there won't be any pics.

[malone]

Dave is coming over tonight so that we can do the downpipe and exhaust, on his caddy with a TD motor. Then he is coming back when I return from Edmonton, and when he has his gauges to do the rest of the mods. Unfortunately I don't have a camera, so unless Dave does or Mark wants to make the drive again there won't be any pics.

Can't come tonight as I've plans but I'll come over for sure after you're back from Edmonton.

If anyone on this board requests more detailed pictures of anything, let me know and I'll do some close-ups. I'll take a better picture or two of the drill press for you, QuickTD

Brett, if you go to Pick e Parts before I come over can you grab a couple more solenoids for me? Or I'll go there next time I'm in Chilliwack. I have some ideas on putting together something to control smoke via a dashboard mounted switch. Good for switching between clean city commute mode and smoky race mode (or get-off-my-back mode ).

[malone]

I did go that Wednesday night and took a few more pictures:

Drill press pic for you, QuickTD


"Superior"


You can see the shifter on top of the Ford 4 gear box:

[malone]

Dave's Caddy. He climbed up there only once to quickly retrieve a part... I had to take a picture anyway


Smokestack exhaust? :cool:

[fspGTD]

Just noticed... you guys drilling and tapping for a pre-turbine thermocouple without removing the turbo!?  :shock:  While this may have saved you some time, could those chips and shavings which were left over in the exhaust manifold and turbine housing been the cause of DVST8R's turbo failure... (mentioned here: http://www.vwdiesel.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=1400)

We drilled a hole in the exhaust manifold to tap+screw in a probe for the pyrometer/EGT gauge:

Also, is that a downpipe without any sort of flex joint?  :?

[malone]

Yes, we drilled and tapped the exhaust manifold with the turbo still on, and yes I'm aware that shavings can damage the turbo. I don't recall the technical name but we used a sticky goo on the drill bit and tap bit and it helped keep the shavings on the bits.

DVST8R ran at least 22 PSI for a year and even did 35 PSI at some point. I don't know how long he had the EGT probe installed for (he did have an Autometer gauge until it was stolen, then now ISSPRO). I don't think the major cause of his turbo failure is the shavings.

Regardless, I'm not concerned about the longevity of my stock turbo because I will have a new one in a short time. So yes, drilling the manifold that way saved us time. No need for that :shock:

The downpipe is currently a little too long; it contacts the steering bar as pictured.  We will cut the downpipe an inch shorter and possibly add a flex pipe near the end of the downpipe (like most factory VWs). We also still need to install the exhaust hangers. It's part of custom tuning. Once Dave's (MK1) and my downpipes are perfected DVST8R can create copies for any MK1/MK2 1.6TD owner who may want one.

Funny, the flex pipe has been replaced for the third time last Saturday (within a 3 month period) for my 1997 Golf with a stock 90bhp 1.8L 8v. I have never hit the flex pipe, the motor mounts are fine, the exhaust system is factory, and the flex pipe was professionally installed. The flex pipe simply started tearing apart despite the soft engine and shifts. Very frustrating to have it happening more than once in a short time, and it wasn't an el-cheapo flex pipe.

If my 1.6TD exhaust breaks with or without a flex pipe, that's nothing some welding and $20 worth of material can fix. The flex pipe still costs a lot more than a regular pipe :?

[935racer]

That sticky goo we used was called grease  When we did marks every few seconds we cleaned it off and put new grease on, and I would say most of the shavings stuck to it. Its actually pretty safe, after We got throught the manifold I put my little finger through there with soem grease on it to try and find some more shavings to justto make sure. My downpipe will actually be commign out soon because Ithink we are gonna put a VNT 17 turbo in there, so we'll see what happens. Mark hit me up an email about those turbos we need to make them work on our 1.6's :twisted:  No those shavings didn;t kill bretts turbo either. he had that egt in a long time ago. he figures it was an oil line. I've taken a few apart before and when brett gets back I'll check out his turbo and verify what happened to it.

[92A2VWJTD]

So, did you guys ever work out some G-tech numbers to compare with Malone's baseline runs? Waiting patiently to see what the new horsepower and torque figures are after all mods you boys did on the "Terra Cotta Jetta". What about some numbers for DVST8R's ride too? Nice work, BTW. Did you do all those mods in one day?

[malone]

So, did you guys ever work out some G-tech numbers to compare with Malone's baseline runs? Waiting patiently to see what the new horsepower and torque figures are after all mods you boys did on the "Terra Cotta Jetta". What about some numbers for DVST8R's ride too? Nice work, BTW. Did you do all those mods in one day?

I'm currently having problems with the injection pump; it makes very good power when cold (idles at around 1,200RPM), but the power drops while hot (idle 700RPM). It's still driveable with great fuel economy, but annoying. There are no noticeable pump leaks.

will have to take the pump apart again and diagnose the problem, and possibly replace the governor mod with standard springs for now. However, the idea of a 1.9L camplate and more timing advance during high RPM is still appealing, so I figure why not send my spare 1.6TD pump to Superior Fuel Injection now instead of later. I called Giles@Superior this morning and will be sending my spare pump this week.

DVST8R's gone on a trip, he will be back next week or the week after. Perhaps we'll try G-Tech again then. It may be difficult - note my earlier post about our attempt to G-Tech DVST8R's ride.

As for my car, we did most of the mods in one day. The exhaust stopped at the rear crossbrace (before the rear axle). We finished more of the exhaust and fixed a pump leak on the next day.

The downpipe still needs to be modded a bit (1" shorter on the straight vertical pipe) for a better fit, and a 3" flex pipe will be added after the downpipe.

I also received GTD injectors from Smog, pop-tested to 160bar (above 150bar stock). I decided not to install them until the pump's fixed.

Cheers,
Mark