Author Topic: Hard starting after sitting for the night, rough cold idle (Read 4603 times)

ilomax · « **on:** November 25, 2007, 03:00:34 pm »

1.5L Diesel in a 1984 Rabbit (I know, wrong engine. I thank the PO for that one)

I'm wondering if the IP not being timed correctly (It's close, but haven't put a dial on it) would make for hard cold starts and rough cold idle.

Some other info:
-Glow plugs work fine (Checked last night)
-No bubbles in the fuel line
-New block heater (Gets nice and toasty)
-Running B50 Biodiesel (First Tank, maybe 80 miles into it)
-It has been in the mid 30s, temperature wise.
-After the initial start, starts fine the rest of the day
-Does have a rough cold idle
-I haven't check the injector breaking point or spray

It's giving me all the symptoms of bad glow plugs, but it's not.
Any ideas?

Thanks all!

Vanagoner · « **Reply #1 on:** November 25, 2007, 06:13:36 pm »

Biodiesel at 50% when it is in the 30's will not particularly want to start, and won't run very well until it gets warmed up. I'd drop the % down for the winter.

ilomax · « **Reply #2 on:** November 25, 2007, 06:35:04 pm »

Quote from: "Vanagoner"

Biodiesel at 50% when it is in the 30's will not particularly want to start, and won't run very well until it gets warmed up. I'd drop the % down for the winter.

So, let me get some questions out of the way about Bio. 50% won't gel up around 30 deg. temps, but it'll run like crap?

I talked to the hippie guy at the bio pump and he didn't say anything about it running like poo. He just said that they didn't sell B100 in the colder months because it gelled up.

Is that in every diesel or is it just in the older diesel engines?

ilomax · « **Reply #3 on:** November 25, 2007, 07:17:04 pm »

Quote from: "libbybapa"

Does your pump leak? Check for air bubbles in the clear line before the injection pump. Is the fuel filter fairly new?

Andrew

-New fuel filter (Probably 3 weeks old. One week with the bio and maybe 80 miles)
-No air bubbles in the clear line
-Surprisingly, the pump does not leak (Cleanest part of the whole car). Nice and dry.

jtanguay · « **Reply #4 on:** November 25, 2007, 07:17:46 pm »

Quote from: "libbybapa"

Does your pump leak? Check for air bubbles in the clear line before the injection pump. Is the fuel filter fairly new?

Andrew

sounds to me like there is a small enough leak so that overnight the pump loses enough prime to make starting difficult. when you start it it regains prime, and keeps it for a while...

ilomax · « **Reply #5 on:** November 25, 2007, 07:20:54 pm »

Andrew[/quote]

sounds to me like there is a small enough leak so that overnight the pump loses enough prime to make starting difficult. when you start it it regains prime, and keeps it for a while...[/quote]

See, thats what I would think, but the clear line doesn't show any air and there isn't any leaks around the IP.

I'm sure if I keep running a high % of bio that I'll see leaks.

I want to get back to the B50 that I'm running... Will that make it hard to start in the mid 30 deg. temps and run rough till it's warm?

Vanagoner · « **Reply #6 on:** November 25, 2007, 07:37:04 pm »

I'll qualify my post. With my tired (100k) engine, and injectors which most certainly need to be rebuilt, I notice a difference with bio in colder weather. Even in warmer weather before I put new glow plugs in, higher concentrations of biodiesel were harder to start. I happen to love the stuff and believe in it. I also believe I need to rebuild my engine.

ilomax · « **Reply #7 on:** November 25, 2007, 07:43:48 pm »

Thanks alot for your input.
This is about as cold as it gets here, I only have to worry about it for a month or two.
I should be able to handle it till I have the time to rebuild and put a 1.6 back in the rabbit.

Any other input?

vanagonturbo · « **Reply #8 on:** November 25, 2007, 09:27:26 pm »

low compression can easily be a factor too. Cold weather will bring this terrible monster rearing its head. Have you comp tested it?

Oh and yeah, dont get me started on B100 in 35 degree weather. I ran that in my Vanagon and barely made it to work and after I got there I had to change both filters and heat gun the fuel tank for an hour.

ilomax · « **Reply #9 on:** November 25, 2007, 09:37:53 pm »

No comp test yet.
I'll figure that out when I pop test the injectors.

The car started and ran fine before I put in the B50.

Really big thanks for the input.

ilomax · « **Reply #10 on:** November 27, 2007, 04:15:31 pm »

Just to give a little up date...
Temperatures got out of the 30s and is now in the mid 40s.
Car starts much...MUCH... easier.

Recap: Car started like poo and at some times didn't start till the battery died (Probably shortened the life of the starter).

I was running B50 and that seemed to be the issue.

Pump timing still not 100% correct, so there is still room for improvement.

ilomax · « **Reply #11 on:** November 28, 2007, 11:14:19 pm »

Another update.

I went and got an additive (Stanadyne) for the tank of B50 from a great place in town, Diesel Injection Services.

Also, went and got new battery cables (2 Gauge).
The old crappy battery cables were a starting issue as well.
Can't believe I didn't think of that before.

Next is to get some lighter weight oil and do ANOTHER oil change.
Then I'm going to get the pump timed.

Car starts quite nice now.
We'll see how she does in the AM.

ilomax · « **Reply #12 on:** November 29, 2007, 10:12:46 am »

Morning update:

With the new battery cables, fresh connections to the glow plug wires and the car plugged in (Just to be safe), it started quicker and easier than ever.
It even ran a little smoother too while cold.

I'm starting to think my issue was the engine not turning over quick enough and the glow plug wires not having a good connection.

It may of also been the additive that I put in, as well.

ilomax · « **Reply #13 on:** November 29, 2007, 10:45:50 pm »

So, it's official. It was the battery cables and the power wires to the glow plugs.

The whole new set up made everything dandy.

My new problem was going home and one of the coolant lines decided it didn't want to stay together and sprung a leak.

Luckily I was about a mile away from home.
I found some random wire in the car, made the fan run without the fan switch and had the radiator cap loose so it didn't build pressure.

Made it home no problem.

All new radiator hoses for me!

Should last me a couple more days until something new.

I can see how crazy these cars would make people if they didn't know how to work on them and had to take it to a shop each time.

Jettadoor · « **Reply #14 on:** November 30, 2007, 02:23:35 am »

Quote from: "ilomax"

I can see how crazy these cars would make people if they didn't know how to work on them and had to take it to a shop each time.

Crazy and POOR :lol:

I have fond memories of my grandfather making us chew gum, then sticking it onto the leaking hoses on his Lea-Francis Tourer with that old cloth-backed dielectric tape nearly every time we went out in it :lol: but it did the job and we always got home!

I'll have to take a couple of photos of what I did to fix the broken gears on the diverter baffle for the dash/foot-well air ducts on my Flair2. Amazing how a piece of coat-hanger wire can save you a bundle of cash!

Have a warm and happy winter!

Philip.