quick question > 1.9TD and VNTs - page 1 - IDI Engine - VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.

• quick question > 1.9TD and VNTs by ezekiel on 28 May, 2006 00:40
• I'm scooping up parts that I'm missing for my 1.9TD, which includes no turbo or exhaust manifold.  Because this is going into a caddy, I figured a VNT would be a good project for me, cause I'm definitely going to use it as a truck.
  
  With that, am I correct in that a TDI VNT-17 will fit?  Appears it's all cast as one, manifold and turbo.
  
  Also, is there someone who'd be willing to subject themselfs to private message bombardment of questions, so I can keep the n00b crap off of the forum?  I'll continue to search, just don't always know exactly what I'm searching for, and there's lots of unspoken truths that I don't know.
  
  thanks!!
  
  --Justin
• #1 by dubCanuck1 on 28 May, 2006 01:01
• Firstly, we need to know what kind of car you've got. As for the rest, let's air out the basics.
  
  

  MKI (70 something-84) had the 1.6TD (Indirect Injection) engines. These used a wastegated-style turbo. If your Caddy hasn't undergone any engine surgery, this is what you're running.
  MKII (85-92) had the 1.6TD (Indirect Injection) engines. These used a wastegated-style turbo for boost.
  MKIII (93-96) had the 1.9TD (Indirect Injection) engines. These also used a wastegated-turbo.
  MKIII (97-98\) had the 1.9TDI (Direct Injection) engines. These still used the wastegated turbos.
  MKIV (99-late 2003/2004) had the 1.9TDI (Direct Injection) engines. These used a Variable Geometry or Variable Vane Turbo, that is controlled by the car's ECU, which controlled the amount of vacuum delivered the the VNT actuator on the turbo, in turn, altering the pitch of the VNT vanes, which deliver boost to the intake system.
  MKIV (2004-2005) have the 1.9 TDI, but use a Pumpe Duse or Unit Injector system to deliver fuel. They still use the VNT turbos found in the earlier MKIV's.
  MKV (2005+) have the 1.9 TDI, and continue to use a Pumpe Duse or Unit Injector system to deliver fuel. They also still use the VNT turbos found in MKIV.

  
  
  Now, if you've got a MKIII or older car, putting a VNT turbo on it isn't going to make much sense (financially or practically) unless you've got the ECU and vacuum setup to make it work properly. Better to continue with a wastegate-style turbo and go from there. The hair on the top of your head will last much longer that way.
  
  Hope that helps.
• #2 by ezekiel on 28 May, 2006 01:27
• it's an 82 caddy, with the 1.6 non-turbo, but it's a MkIII 1.9TD IDI that's going into it.
  
  Right now, I've got nothing by way of exhaust, no manifold, no turbo.
  
  Haven't a couple people gotten the VNTs to work by hacking the can?
  
  Also, I'm thinking in my head, planning anyway, to be able to run 25psi, definitely not all the time, but capable of it.
  
  I know how to size petrol turbos, is a diesel turbo any different?
  
  thanks again!
  
  btw, not totally set in running a VNT, just doing research, basically.
• #3 by dubCanuck1 on 28 May, 2006 09:31
• Yeah, a few people have gotten a VNT to run without the VNT pot (one of the guys on the french TDI section has done it with a VNT20), but to be honest, you should just source a wastegated turbo and go with that. It'll probably be half as expensive and they can flow just as much air. If you get the stock turbo from a MKIII or MKII, you can flow just as much air and won't need to go through as much trouble.
  
  You'll probably also save some money with that setup too.
• #4 by Benjamin on 28 May, 2006 10:05
• Malone, Audi80 and Jetman got VNT, i thought GT2052v,
  i got 2 of those turbo's to, but the progress is still not finished.
  You need to rebuild the VNT controller to a pressure regulated pot.
  You can find the turbo on any VAG2.5TDI. It got a T2flange, so you need the right collector.
  
  i thought Sebzero in the French section got also a vnt turbo
  
  on the 1.9tdi they use a gt15..v, a gt1749v and for the 150hp-engine the gt1749vb. anyway, its another flange than the gt20
  
  Greetz, Benjamin
• #5 by deepmud on 28 May, 2006 11:17
• 
  
  
  
  VNT17 along with TDI-M going in my Suzuki Samurai.
  
  Seems to be a stock component from some other turbo. It bolts right in, fits correctly.
• #6 by ezekiel on 28 May, 2006 12:02
• has anyone been able to adapt a fuzzy logic boost controller of some kind to them?  I've been reading various pdf documents about fuzzy logic control of VNT turbos, I think the problem may be the heierarchy in which they use to determine control.
• #7 by dubCanuck1 on 28 May, 2006 12:52
• NamedTintin has the VNT20 (GT2052V...the "V" part indicating the Variable Vane part) on a TDI-M. Malone had a VNT20 on his TDI project, as do I.
  
  You will need an adapter plate for a VNT 20 as it is non integrated and won't have the manifolds weren't made with the same bolt pattern.
  
  The VNT15 and 17 will bolt right up to the head. If you're willing to do what the TDI-M guys have done to retrofit a VNT to your application, go for it. I was just pointing out that it's far easier to mount the kind of turbo to your car that was shipped with the engine.
• #8 by Benjamin on 28 May, 2006 12:53
• yes, you can change it with a "turbo-wastegate-actuator-pot".
  If you use the searchfunction you can read that..
  
  Greetz, Benjamin
• #9 by Tintin on 28 May, 2006 15:14
• With my VNT-20, I connected mechanism VNT with a cable on the trothle of the pump, and I put a actuator for limited the boost pressure desired.
  
  With this method, the turbo reacted like a wastegated turbo, and very easily adjustable in 20 seconds.
  
  look at this:
  
  
  I have two videos if you want to see them.
  
  i hope that my English is not too bad.  :wink:
  
  Martin.
• #10 by Benjamin on 28 May, 2006 15:52
• yeah, just post those movies :lol:
  
  

  Quote

  I connected mechanism VNT with a cable on the trothle of the pump, and I put a actuator for limited the boost pressure desired

  
  
  i just don't get how it can work at low lagy rpm's.
  
  I was only planning a actuator to control the VNT, and a external wastegate.
  
  Greetz, Benjamin
• #11 by Tintin on 28 May, 2006 17:12
• No lag, full boost when I reaches arrond 1700RPM, and any moment has when I press on the accelerator, the turbo reacted very quickly.
  
  1 secondes lag, because of my large FMIC.
  
  It is my right foot which control the turbo, and the actuator control pressure while pushing in opposite direction.
• #12 by ezekiel on 28 May, 2006 20:54
• wouldn't that mean that it'd spool slowly if you went straight to WOT?
• #13 by jtanguay on 29 May, 2006 03:15
• Quote from: ezekiel

  wouldn't that mean that it'd spool slowly if you went straight to WOT?

  
  
  with the amount of fuel/heat being applied to the turbo, even if the vanes were completely open, it could still develop around 6-10 psi boost.   The exhaust gas will still be flowing over the turbine wheel, but will not be concentrated on it.
• #14 by Tintin on 29 May, 2006 11:34
• The video gives an idea, I did not find better http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8726487528543720960