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Timing vs starting
by
rodpaslow
on 05 Jun, 2013 09:01
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I've looked back at several posts and most posts have a conversation on on what's been used in the past both 1.9 AAZ and later 1.6 (Canada ME/MF 1V engine codes). What is suggested in the book is .95-1.05 timing with 1.00 ± .02 as the adjusted value. One post asked specifically what's the best value - it was never really answered - specifically best for starting?
If it were a gasser, I'd say slightly retarted. A 1.6 TD deisel -is 1.05 better for starting? Mine is currently set to .97mm
(Just a not the cold start cable advances 5° as stated by bently manual)
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#1
by
rodpaslow
on 05 Jun, 2013 09:03
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If fogot to mention - if you're not worried about increased noise - simply better starting timing.
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#2
by
bajacalal
on 05 Jun, 2013 09:37
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There is no best value. Factors such as the condition of the engine, the condition of the injection pump and some internal settings of the injection pump have an effect on how it runs with different static timing settings. Advancing the timing can overcome some problems associated with a worn pump or low compression. Essentially, no two engines will run the same.
I also don't believe in "time it by ear." I think that's how people end up with timing settings that are way out of line like 0.40 mm.
What I believe in doing is to set it at the best setting (where the engine runs and sounds the best) that is still withing the specified range. I think the the range they specify should be safe for the engine. Try different settings that are within range. You want "clack" when it is cold and noticeably more clack when you pull the advance cable but no clack when it is hot idling in traffic. More advance = more clacking. You want it to start easily and not smoke at idle. Less advance generally = more smoke and harder starting.
Small incremental changes make a big difference, btw. The previous owner had the car set at 0.97. I think it ran like ass, it would smoke and it would misfire on deceleration. The cold start cable didn't seem to make much difference. I bumped it up to 1.02. It's too far advanced and clacks too much. I will probably put it at 1.00. 0.97 is probably too retarded and 1.05 probably too advanced for a TD engine that is in good condition.
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#3
by
fatmobile
on 05 Jun, 2013 11:09
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You say you don't like timing it by ear.
Then describe how you time it by ear.
Great advice though.
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#4
by
745 turbogreasel
on 05 Jun, 2013 11:21
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In my experience, a good engine with a good pump will fire on the first crank as long as it is timed anywhere near the spec'd range.
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#5
by
rodpaslow
on 05 Jun, 2013 13:59
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I think that will help -thanks all. Just before I took it out commission (changing tranny) it was starting terrible at around the freezing mark (end of April -in Canada). Engine is in good shape, maybe 10,000 km on a new engine so clearances, rings, etc are all fine. Starting terrible meaning after standard glow time - I would crank it for probably half 20-30 seconds before it would start firing and start. 900CC amp battery and relatively new starter. It was turning over quickly just would not catch easily.
I know I had 1 glow plug not working, since then have changed them all and reviewed all items with glow system and all are good at present. I will be starting it tonight, so it should be much, much quicker to start once the injector lines have been bled. (I take the lines off to change g-plugs).
I have done the glow system where I have 4 fuses for each glow plug (like vince's suggestions). Right now they are 20 amp. should they not be higher? Will this restrict the amperage they can draw? Just curious.
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#6
by
8v-of-fury
on 05 Jun, 2013 17:42
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Plugs pull like 9A each.. a 20 is fine
.
If it still starts like utter crap after you replace the plugs.. I'd try knocking the timing back down actually..
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#7
by
ORCoaster
on 05 Jun, 2013 19:52
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I tried running with 10 amp ones on each GP and for some reason one of them pops the fuse at the most inconvenient times. So I had to up that one to a 15 and it has been solid working ever since. Ruins the Feng Shui under the hood.
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#8
by
homerj1
on 06 Jun, 2013 02:36
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I'm going to try timing by ear.
To clarify:
1. Warm engine.
2. Loosen 4 bolts
3. Move pump ( can someone clarify which way is advanced) under marble- like sound - then back off a bit.
4. Tighten bolts
Am I missing anything?
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#9
by
TylerDurden
on 06 Jun, 2013 06:29
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1. Warm engine.
1.1 Mark IP current position.
1.2 Ensure cold-start lever is disengaged.
2. Loosen 4 bolts.
3. Move pump top toward valve cover until clatter increases - then back off a bit.
4. Tighten bolts.
5. Loosen and retighten injector lines at IP to release the torque which can cause stress fractures.
Am I missing anything?
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#10
by
rodpaslow
on 06 Jun, 2013 08:51
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I started it last night, current temps about +20 to 25° (about 70 to 80°F) and it took right off with new glow plugs. I basically have a new starter in place to with change over to 02A, it took right off. I think I will leave timing as is for the summer and once it's late fall I may test and see if advancing it to 1.00 helps with starting if needed.
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#11
by
bajacalal
on 06 Jun, 2013 09:46
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I loosen the lines at the IP, and at the injectors and I loosen the injector line clamps, nice and loose, to allow them to reposition themselves, then re-tighten everything so there should be no stress on anything... But I'm paranoid.
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#12
by
homerj1
on 06 Jun, 2013 14:55
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Thanks for the instructions!
Will adjust this weekend.
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#13
by
fatmobile
on 07 Jun, 2013 01:36
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The pump can be hard to turn with the injector lines hooked-up.
I grab one of the accelerator cable mounting bracket bolts with a vice grips to adjust timing with the engine running.
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#14
by
tyb525
on 07 Jun, 2013 12:18
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I don't adjust it running, for some reason it makes me nervous. I've got it adjusted good without it running, just have to start it a couple times, no biggie. And no stress on the lines.