OH NO! Valves, meet pistons - page 1 - IDI Engine - VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.

• OH NO! Valves, meet pistons by iheartbeets on 21 Oct, 2012 20:16
• So, the time had come to pull my IP.  It was leaking bad.  I replaced the timing belt 40,000 miles ago.  It was getting wet and I was leaving puddles.  Hard to start in the morning, etc.  Luckily, I had a pump that came from a known running vehicle.  My uncle and I got everything swapped out.  We fired it up and it sounded like the problem that others have had (180 out).  I have all the correct tools for the job so we locked the cam again, lined up flywheel, inserted pin into the injection pump hole.  In our haste, we forgot to take the IP lock pin out and it jumped time.........you know what happened next
  
  So, I made a stupid rookie move and now I'm moving to plan B.  I'm sending the IP off to Giles in the morning.  I have a good running Eco engine.  I have a complete engine reseal kit.  I have new injectors and plugs.  My plan was to build this thing over the winter but now my time line just got pushed forward a bunch.  I'm asking you folks what all I should replace while I have the engine out.  I figure:
  -clutch, pressure plate
  -engine mounts
  -?
  
  I guess I am still unsure as to how to mount the pump properly also.  With the cam lock in, IP pin locked in the proper hole and the flywheel at TDC with both cam lobes on #1 up, how do you know when the IP is injecting fuel into #1?  Are those the only things necessary? Does the IP inject fuel to all 4 injectors per revolution or one injector per revolution?   I know, it's probably a silly question to you vets.  Any help is greatly appreciated as always.
  
  
• #1 by libbydiesel on 21 Oct, 2012 20:37
• If your sprocket has just one hole that fits the pin then when the crank is at TDC, camlock is in and pump pin is in it is timed correctly.  If your sprocket has two holes that size 180° apart, then you have to make sure the pin is in the hole that corresponds to a mark on the inside of the sprocket lining up with top centerline of the pump.  The injection pump injects fuel to each cylinder in turn during one rotation of it's sprocket.  The inj pump sprocket (and cam) spins at 1/2 crank speed so only injects fuel to two of the cylinders per crank rotation.
• #2 by iheartbeets on 21 Oct, 2012 20:48
• Thank you libby!  Then the engine was in time.  The pump was just poop.  All the sprockets that I have only have one hole that fits the pin and also allows the marks to align properly.  Anything I should grab for my swap save what I already have?  As soon as I heard that sound, I knew what had happened and my heart sank.  I feel like I am responsible for the death of a perfectly tired 1.6 NA
  
  On a lighter note, I'm ready to attack this and get the turbo in.
• #3 by CRSMP5 on 21 Oct, 2012 21:08
• sorry... im a dick... but... what happened to turn it over 2x by hand before hitting the key?? rule on ANY engine you screw with cam/crank timming is to turn it over by hand... if you lacked that info.. you learned now i hope..
• #4 by 745 turbogreasel on 21 Oct, 2012 21:17
• Yup, I learned the same lesson the same way.  Now I'm pretty anal about the hand rotations.
  
  It is still possible the pump was out of time, but it would be an internal assembly mistake and without the old style pulley, you'd have no way of fixing it without pulling the pump apart.
  
  At cranking speed, there may not be much damage, valves and lifters should be checked though.
• #5 by iheartbeets on 21 Oct, 2012 21:19
• You're right.  I deserve whatever I get by sharing my story.  We DID turn it over by hand the first time.  I was very explicit about all the interweb knowledge I've garnered from folks like you over the years.  It's my failure and I have to live with it.  My uncle, for the record, is a Chevy guy.  Not a backwoods WT idiot by ANY means but he is out of his element when it comes to working on my car.  He just happens to like wrenching and has a lift at his place.  I have to bring metric tools with me.  
  
  So, back to my other question, what should be ready to go when you swap engines?
• #6 by iheartbeets on 21 Oct, 2012 21:25
• I was able to retime and fire it back up.  It runs, just like ragged dog poo.  I heard the smack of interference.  I get barely any response when I give it fuel.  I got barely any response before the accident.  Even after timing it with the dial indicator.  I think this is an omen.  Put the dang turbo engine in, have giles rebuild the pump, put the GTD intercooler on and be done. 
• #7 by TylerDurden on 22 Oct, 2012 04:26
• IIRC, You can verify the pump is not 180 out internally, by slacking the #1 hardline and turning the engine by using the front wheel off the ground. You should see a burp of fuel each time the IP gets to the timing mark.
  
  I lift the passenger side wheel and put the car in 5th gear to get the best mechanical advantage.
• #8 by theman53 on 22 Oct, 2012 05:43
• I would do the water pump, t stat, and starter bushing along with what you have listed. If you live somewhere cold when the engine is out it is easy to put in a block heater. Also, the oil pan gasket is easy to do with the engine out, and if you have it that far you should replace the front and rear mains.
  
  Now when turning by hand the next thing to do is remember to not leave the ratchet on before starting it with the key.
• #9 by libbydiesel on 22 Oct, 2012 07:01
• Check the intermediate shaft bearings.
• #10 by R.O.R-2.0 on 22 Oct, 2012 10:40
• Quote from: theman53 on 22 Oct, 2012 05:43

  I would do the water pump, t stat, and starter bushing along with what you have listed. If you live somewhere cold when the engine is out it is easy to put in a block heater. Also, the oil pan gasket is easy to do with the engine out, and if you have it that far you should replace the front and rear mains.
  
  Now when turning by hand the next thing to do is remember to not leave the ratchet on before starting it with the key.
  

  
  ive left ratchets on the crank pulley before.. as long as you have the ratchet set the right direction, it will just make a horrible racket, and come off..
• #11 by CarlosA on 22 Oct, 2012 12:21
• Ive been using this tool to rotate the engine anytime I do any timing, etc. Works very well from above the engine and is plenty stout enough for the compression of these engines.
  
  
• #12 by R.O.R-2.0 on 22 Oct, 2012 12:37
• Quote from: CarlosA on 22 Oct, 2012 12:21

  Ive been using this tool to rotate the engine anytime I do any timing, etc. Works very well from above the engine and is plenty stout enough for the compression of these engines.
  
  
  

  
  these engines are no harder to turn over than their 1.8 gasser counterparts..
  
  its not like you are turning them over FAST by hand..
• #13 by theman53 on 22 Oct, 2012 18:34
• I know a guy personally that left a rachet on a TDI and it bent a rod. Now a TDI rod is probably 1/2 the strength of our 1.6, but still I wouldn't want it to happen too often.
  
  Good call on the IM bearings if they need replaced do that too.
• #14 by iheartbeets on 22 Oct, 2012 18:37
• Thanks for all the replies. Got the pump sent off this morning. I'll post some pics of the engine as I clean it up. Pics are always fun.