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#60
by
R.O.R-2.0
on 23 Oct, 2012 13:40
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Thanks for the link!
I will surely look into those things if a regulator is needed.
My goal is to not need one though..
I guess I will only know when I get to test my pump and fuel system in action.
Hmm. There is one more thing that you guys could definitely help me with!
I would need some sort of a warning system in case the feed pump fails and the catch tank runs dry.
Is there a quickly-acting sensor that would sense if the liquid level drops?
A coolant overflow tank sensor comes to mind, but would that work similarly with diesel fuel as it works with water/glycol?
Depending on the size of my catch tank-to-be, it would, at full load, run dry within 30-60 seconds of the transfer pump dying.
whats wrong with running out of fuel, like the rest of us would do?
your engine wont run for long without fuel, so its not gonna damage anything..
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#61
by
theman53
on 23 Oct, 2012 14:53
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The pump does use the fuel to cool itself.
...since you have to have one I would make the catch tank with a sight glass or the entire thing clear so you could see it in action.
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#62
by
RabbitJockey
on 23 Oct, 2012 16:17
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The sensor from the coolant tank won't work in diesel, i don't totally understand your fuel system but if any part of it will be pressurized it would be easy to rig a pressure sensor to an led. I can't think of another way that won't be interfered with by normal splashing of the fluid. A float may work I guess as long as it is the post mounted style and the full level of the chamber is much higher than the max height the float can float. But I really think it is over kill since the chamber alone will offer a lot of protection from running out of fuel
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#63
by
R.O.R-2.0
on 23 Oct, 2012 16:20
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The sensor from the coolant tank won't work in diesel, i don't totally understand your fuel system but if any part of it will be pressurized it would be easy to rig a pressure sensor to an led. I can't think of another way that won't be interfered with by normal splashing of the fluid. A float may work I guess as long as it is the post mounted style and the full level of the chamber is much higher than the max height the float can float. But I really think it is over kill since the chamber alone will offer a lot of protection from running out of fuel
use a fuel level sending unit mounted inside the catch tank?
attach it to a gauge..
done deal..
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#64
by
RabbitJockey
on 23 Oct, 2012 17:36
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The sensor from the coolant tank won't work in diesel, i don't totally understand your fuel system but if any part of it will be pressurized it would be easy to rig a pressure sensor to an led. I can't think of another way that won't be interfered with by normal splashing of the fluid. A float may work I guess as long as it is the post mounted style and the full level of the chamber is much higher than the max height the float can float. But I really think it is over kill since the chamber alone will offer a lot of protection from running out of fuel
use a fuel level sending unit mounted inside the catch tank?
attach it to a gauge..
done deal..
Yes but they react slowly and put out a resistance value not on/off which would be easy to use to turn a light on and off but much simpler things can be done much more easily not to mention something smaller
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#65
by
TurboJ
on 24 Oct, 2012 17:30
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The thing is the pump will very likely be destroyed instantly if the fuel flow stops at full load.
I'll have to think about this some more... A float did come to mind, but that could be too slow.
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#66
by
R.O.R-2.0
on 24 Oct, 2012 18:06
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The thing is the pump will very likely be destroyed instantly if the fuel flow stops at full load.
I'll have to think about this some more... A float did come to mind, but that could be too slow.
how would your pump be destroyed INSTANTLY?
its not like the inside of the fuel pump can actually run dry..
its still gonna be atleast half full, and with the parts moving inside the pump, the fuel will likely be slung around, still lubricating things..
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#67
by
TylerDurden
on 24 Oct, 2012 18:11
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Ja...AIUI, the port in the IP that feeds the high-pressure section is near the top of the pump, so that the engine will starve/stall before the pump runs dry.
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#68
by
theman53
on 29 Nov, 2012 17:09
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....Kicking a dead horse, I know, but I just got this from Giles and my input here is not "I am right you are wrong" kind of thing it is more "This is what Giles said and I think him and P pump builder should talk" kind of thing.
Copied from my email.
Hi Lucas
sorry for the delay
yes we did that experiment and I tried it again last week and for sure when you feed the pump with more pressure it doesn't affect the advance travel
Giles
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#69
by
Alcaid
on 30 Nov, 2012 02:06
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....Kicking a dead horse, I know, but I just got this from Giles and my input here is not "I am right you are wrong" kind of thing it is more "This is what Giles said and I think him and P pump builder should talk" kind of thing.
Copied from my email.
Hi Lucas
sorry for the delay
yes we did that experiment and I tried it again last week and for sure when you feed the pump with more pressure it doesn't affect the advance travel
Giles
I doublechecked with my pump builder and he infact confirmed that timing falls on it's face if fed above 0.5bar/7psi fuel pressure
But then again, my friends 173whp 1.6TD is fed with 18psi fuel pressure and puls all the way to 5200rpm before HP curve dives
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#70
by
R.O.R-2.0
on 30 Nov, 2012 09:37
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....Kicking a dead horse, I know, but I just got this from Giles and my input here is not "I am right you are wrong" kind of thing it is more "This is what Giles said and I think him and P pump builder should talk" kind of thing.
Copied from my email.
Hi Lucas
sorry for the delay
yes we did that experiment and I tried it again last week and for sure when you feed the pump with more pressure it doesn't affect the advance travel
Giles
I doublechecked with my pump builder and he infact confirmed that timing falls on it's face if fed above 0.5bar/7psi fuel pressure
But then again, my friends 173whp 1.6TD is fed with 18psi fuel pressure and puls all the way to 5200rpm before HP curve dives
HOW??
nobody has mentioned HOW the timing is negated if pressure fed?!
how come the cummins bosch guys got away with it fine?
how come there were bosch VE pumps installed on vehicles with OEM lift pumps?
the timing advance comes from a DIFFERENCE in pressure between the fuel inlet, and the internal pump body..
something is fishy, or else someone is blowing smoke..
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#71
by
Alcaid
on 30 Nov, 2012 10:13
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It's been mentioned several times. Timing falls back to 0. You are mixing up IDI and DI pumps with electronic advance. They don't mind being pressure fed.
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#72
by
R.O.R-2.0
on 30 Nov, 2012 10:36
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It's been mentioned several times. Timing falls back to 0. You are mixing up IDI and DI pumps with electronic advance. They don't mind being pressure fed.
all youve done, is say that it doesnt work. and given no facts to back it up.
giles says that it does work, and with LOTS of pressure..
im not mixing anything up. im not speaking of VP pumps with electronic advance.. im talking about VE pumps.. mechanical.
i just dont understand how it is even possible when the timing piston works from PRESSURE DIFFERENTIALS?!
when you increase the pressure at the inlet, you increase the pressure internally.
to make the timing advance NOT WORK, you need to match the pump inlet pressure with the internal pump pressure..
these things IDLE with more internal pressure than most pumps are ever fed..
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#73
by
Alcaid
on 30 Nov, 2012 12:15
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Just passing on information from Dieselmeken, one of Europe's most known pump builders, and at the same time this data confirms what the Finnish pump builders say. Now where do we find the highest HP IDIs?
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#74
by
theman53
on 30 Nov, 2012 14:54
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Don't argue guys, I posted what Giles said as that is just it, what he said. I think the 2 guys should get together on the phone and share some secrets and then let us know what is up. I own a Giles product and know how it works. I have an inline pump that I can turn on or off and the only difference I have found is upper RPM is better with it on. Makes no difference in feel in the rest of the engine RPM range. If I had to say I would be on Giles side now, but I do not have enough info to make a perfect guess on it...hence I think the 2 guys need to talk as something is not correct.