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#15 by EcoTX on 03 Sep, 2012 10:12
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Those vertical scratches don't come from running really cool. It got hot. FWIW the cracks between valves don't always result from high heat.
that looks just like the bores of my Jetta engine, and i heat seized it going up a hill @ 100mph..
temp gauge didnt even budge from half way..
Yes the vertical scratches and bore condition looks much worse in the first set of pictures, but after some light scotch brite action, most have come right out as evidenced in the second set of pictures.
Like I said the bores feel extremely smooth with no ridge, those scratches are not wore into the cylinder bores.
I think 90% of the imperfections you see in the bores will come out with a ball hone, at least, that's what I'm hoping.
This is my first venture into the block of one of these, and this being a cheap "not running" parts motor, I'm not too concerned with its fate.
I have seen a few sets of bores on these though, and this is the first block that has no ridge on the cylinders.
That to me is a good sign of the condition of the block so far, especially with factory pistons still installed. -
#16 by JessaBug on 04 Sep, 2012 08:09
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Was it bio or WVO? A lot of people don't know the difference and use the two interchangeably.
It was definitely biodiesel, he had clear lines running and the fuel was light yellow like vegetable oil.
I dribbled a bit on my fingers from the filter and it definitely had that greasy, vegetable oil smell to it.
Felt a lot more filmy and oily than diesel too.
I think it still could be veggie oil. Biodiesel is completely different. Yes, its made from oil, but its chemically changed to be more similar to diesel. Shouldn't really be greasy or oily feeling. -
#17 by EcoTX on 04 Sep, 2012 10:19
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Was it bio or WVO? A lot of people don't know the difference and use the two interchangeably.
It was definitely biodiesel, he had clear lines running and the fuel was light yellow like vegetable oil.
I dribbled a bit on my fingers from the filter and it definitely had that greasy, vegetable oil smell to it.
Felt a lot more filmy and oily than diesel too.
I think it still could be veggie oil. Biodiesel is completely different. Yes, its made from oil, but its chemically changed to be more similar to diesel. Shouldn't really be greasy or oily feeling.
You may be right.
When I made the topic I put "100% Biodiesel use" in quotes on purpose as sort of tongue-in-cheek.
I'm not trying to bash biodiesel here or anything, just tearing down a motor that the owner said he ran 100% biodiesel in all the time.
That's all I have to go on and it's really just speculation what fuel he was actually running.
I'm not 100% familiar with the differences between biodiesel and D2, so I shouldn't have said it's definitely biodiesel.
It didn't have a two tank set-up when I bought it, and surely this guy wasn't stupid enough to just be pouring WVO into his tank.
Maybe he was mixing in SVO he bought at the store in an effort to be "green"?
I'm going to pop the top off the injector pump and see if it looks all nasty too.
I got some good pics coming later. -
#18 by JessaBug on 04 Sep, 2012 12:38
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It could also potentially be bad biodiesel, as in not prepared correctly/well. But who knows. I haven't been around B100 in a couple years either so I may be misremembering things. But I don't recall it being greasy.
Bio will eat up seals and things, but if that's sludge, it shouldn't cause that. I bet what happened had little to nothing to do with the fuel used, as long as it was quality fuel. -
#19 by nathantheengineer on 04 Sep, 2012 13:47
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i spent 2 yrs happily chugging around in a merc 190 d 2.5 running on wvo. I filtered it to 2 microns and all was right with the world( apart from the smell
) did 100k miles. I would have kept it if it had a turbo but alas not in the UK!!
No problems at all but my friend with a vauxhall cavalier with the 1.7 td isuzu, well that was a different story. multiple head cracks etc but we only gave £50 for it and it lasted 18 months.
The problem with yours is not fuel, it was badly maintained.
Cheers
nathan -
#20 by ORCoaster on 04 Sep, 2012 21:17
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Looking at those pics I wonder if it isn't the effect of the fuel on the gunk in the engine before he started to run "alternative fuels". Doesn't Biodiesel and WVO have the ability to remove the diesel crud buildup? Just wondering not stating a fact.
With only a one tank system you would hope the PO was running BioD and not dumping the SVO or WVO in there. But you know, anything is possible. I see ads for diesel cars all the time that say they are WVO ready and yet they only have one tank on there. I run all three types of fuels, D, BioD and WVO in my car and have the heated two tank system. I still run a alot of black oil through it and change the oil every 3000 miles so I can't say any of them is dirtier that the rest. Soot is going to be made, oil is meant to capture it. Seems to be working. Maybe I need a Frantz filter to test any theory I have. -
#21 by 745 turbogreasel on 04 Sep, 2012 23:03
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If you already have bad blowby, and don't change your oil, running veg fuels, you can get polymerized buildup, and you can recognize it by its non'removability.
Like doesn't come off in the hot tank bad. if on the other hand its some kind of moly or grease,you will be able to create a clean spot using nothing but a rag. -
#22 by EcoTX on 05 Sep, 2012 11:48
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Ok last update for awhile since I have to go back to work tomorrow.
This is the piston protrusion checker me and my dad put our heads together on.
He had the aluminum and bolts, and I came up with the indicator and spare pump part.
Works great! Has a full 3-3.5mm of readability which is plenty for this purpose.
I want to improve it to use head bolts that thread in so it doesn't have to be a 2 person job nearly.
For as little time it takes to turn over TDC, we get accurate and consistent readings with it.
Our measurements indicated a 1 notch head gasket was needed, since there was no projection over 0.86mm.
We will measure again after it's all back together and double check before ordering.
It had a 3 notch gasket installed which looked fairly new. Still had the blue tacky sealer around the edge in some spots.
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Here's the oil pan and pump screen completely sludged up...
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I then stamped everything and removed the pistons. Sure enough, pistons 3 and 4 were the worst. Piston 2 was the only one with all 3 rings still loose in the grooves.
Got the old rings out and gave the pistons a light washing then cleaned the oil pump out real good.
Also got a shot of #1 and #4 rod journals. The rod bearings and journals all look and feel fine, looks like most of the damage is in the pistons and rings.
This being a project motor more than anything, I'm just going to hone, re-ring, and get the right headgasket for it.
I'll be in this build right around 100 bucks back up and running with good compression I'm hoping.
I need to figure out what I'm going to do with it if it has good compression next.
More than likely turbo... -
#23 by 745 turbogreasel on 05 Sep, 2012 13:42
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Quote
Our measurements indicated a 1 notch head gasket was needed, since there was no projection over 0.86mm.
That might explain some low compression and deposits, or indicate a set of bent rods.
We will measure again after it's all back together and double check before ordering.
It had a 3 notch gasket installed which looked fairly new. -
#24 by theman53 on 05 Sep, 2012 18:21
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That sludge looks like water/coolant got in there to me, lots of it too.
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#25 by burn_your_money on 05 Sep, 2012 18:44
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Thanks for the pics. Thankfully I've never seen sludge before. Looks nasty.
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#26 by theman53 on 05 Sep, 2012 18:46
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Mine looked like that when the precup broke through the water jacket in the head, flooding the crankcase with coolant.
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#27 by RustyCaddy on 05 Sep, 2012 19:26
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The polymerized crud from vegetable oil that i have seen is brownish, thick and a little rubbery. Biodiesel doesn't usually coke the rings up that badly but vegetable oil does.
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#28 by Toby on 06 Sep, 2012 00:20
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I am surprised you guys don't recognize the problem from the pics. The primary problem is the leaking head gasket. Plain as day. All of that red rust in the pics is caused by acids formed when combustion products mix with water. This motor also sat with water in the cylinders for a while. That is why the bores are rusty. That kind of slime comes from antifreeze mixing with the oil. It is mainly the additives that come out of suspension when mixed with ethylene glycol. The WVO he was running didn't help either. FYI BD is not oily or greasy feeling, nor does it have a greasy smell. It also does not cause the tacky build up described that is hell to get off thing. That is the glycerin which is absent from BD. BTW biodiesel gets that stuff off really well.
This thing got so hot it likely would not run any more, hence the scored pistons and walls. It is also why the rings were broken and stuck in the ring grooves. Not a problem to remove if you heat the pistons in the oven and are gentle prying them out. Glass bead the pistons after sanding out the big scratches, paying special attention to the crap hiding in the bottom of the ring grooves. DO NOT scrape the ring grooves with a broken ring. If you scar the ring land the motor will always be a bit low on compression and burn oil.
Ball hone the bores after reaming the ridges and you should be fine so long as the ring grooves aren't too bad and the bore isn't too oval.
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#29 by theman53 on 06 Sep, 2012 05:20
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Mine looked like that when the precup broke through the water jacket in the head, flooding the crankcase with coolant.
yep, I agree toby.