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#45
by
Jetmugg
on 15 May, 2012 11:03
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Side note - I just purchased a standard bore 1.6L Turbo hydraulic block.
I'll be taking a bunch of parts to the machine shop next week.
Steve.
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#46
by
R.O.R-2.0
on 15 May, 2012 11:11
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Side note - I just purchased a standard bore 1.6L Turbo hydraulic block.
I'll be taking a bunch of parts to the machine shop next week.
Steve.
find yourself a GOOD 1.6D head, and prep it all up, for IN CASE the AAZ head doesnt work good on the 1.5 bottom end.. (not enough compression to run efficiently)
i would have a PLAN B ready, because this is an engine that has never really been built and used enough to determine if its a viable combo..
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#47
by
Jetmugg
on 15 May, 2012 11:51
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If the AAZ head won't play nice on the 1.5 displacement bottom end, I'll probably have to sell the AAZ in order to fund another head. Until that time, I'm pushing forward on the premise that I'll be able to make the power I'll need with the planned combo.
I probably won't know for sure until early next year, when the engine will be installed in the vehicle and run on a chassis dyno.
Steve.
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#48
by
RabbitJockey
on 16 May, 2012 14:34
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what is your plan for a turbo... u can pick something real sweet spool up time is not much of a problem
awesome build tho... all the people i know who say "it's just money" have the sweetest cars haha.
Also we haven't tried fitting anything up yet, but all the bolt measurements are very close for rabbit suspension on a dodge, i'll let you know how that works out, we should soon be trying it. I was just waiting to receive a turbo in the mail so i could show him it and we could try my suspension on his charger all in one night.
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#49
by
Jetmugg
on 16 May, 2012 19:10
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I have been talking to a guy who runs a business called "The Turbo Center" here in St Louis. He's been around for years, and has worked on an LSR car or two. He agrees that finding the right turbo setup won't be a major deal, especially since the question of turbo lag is not an issue. We haven't selected a turbo yet, but the idea is to find one that can hit the boost numbers that I'll need, while still being "easy" on the turbo.
He has also suggested not putting too much effort about finding a factory turbo manifold. Instead, I will find whatever exhaust manifold matches the AAZ ports best, and he will fab the turbo flange onto it.
Regarding the Rabbit/Charger setup, How will the steering arms play out? My memory tells me that on the Rabbits, the tie rods connect to an arm on the strut, which is quite a bit farther "up" than the Dodge setup, which is down by the lower ball joints. Of course, my memory isn't always very sharp.
I do know for a fact that an entire 2nd Gen Neon setup will bolt directly onto an L-Body dodge, from the balljoints up to the strut mount. An extra hole will have to be drilled into the upper strut mount location, but it's 100% bolt on.
Steve.
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#50
by
RabbitJockey
on 17 May, 2012 08:40
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ok make sure u post what they come up with for a turbo. hillfolk years ago used a dual down pipe rabbit manifold and flipped it over and made an adaptor for the t3 flange, i think that'd be a pretty good setup, or watch for a used tubular manifold maybe. but i think the kinetic or other aftermarket 8v manifold will probably be fine... i can't remember the company that makes it
well what we're trying to do is bolt the dodge knuckle to the vw strut, the bolt holes seem to be the correct distance apart... so the this makes everything alot simpler. the only thing that could really be an issue is the thickness of the knuckle which can easily be spaced or machined down. he actually has a set of later daytona knuckles that were machined down to work with the older strut so he can run the bigger brakes.
i had manetioned the neon stuff to him, he said the rear suspension is different on the dodge because it uses and actual strut? seemed like he said something else was different too, that or the vw stuff is just cheaper haha, we'll see since i got a turbo yesterday so sometime next week i'll be meeting up with him. its a turbonetics a t3/t4 to4e 50 trim with the newer f1 57 wheel, i got it for a song so i just bought it but i don't know how well it would work on anything i have haha. how ever i do believe it is the same turbo dave at passenger performance used on his 195whp build
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#51
by
Jetmugg
on 17 May, 2012 11:13
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Sounds like your Dodge/VW project is on the right path. You are right about the thickness of the knuckles at the mounting point for the struts... The factory L body knuckle is thinner than the Daytona or any other Chrysler stuff. One of the preferred knuckle setups is actually a 91 and up Spirit, or other K-car derivative. They use a bolt-in wheel bearing carrier, and also work like a dropped spindle compared to the Daytona or Charger geometry. There is more distance between the lower balljoint mounting position and the centerline of the axle shaft. These spindles can also handle the big brakes.
Your friend is right about the rear suspension as well. I will only be using the spindle, backing plate, and rear brakes from the Neon. The stub-axle bolt pattern is the same as on a Charger.
Also interesting about the turbo configuration. I'm not up to speed on all the various trim designations for the turbos, and what is possible in terms of combinations of parts. I'll learn as much as possible, in the hopes that I can have an educated conversation with John from The Turbo Center.
Good luck with the Rabbit-Charger project, and post any pics if possible.
Steve.
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#52
by
R.O.R-2.0
on 17 May, 2012 13:41
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ok make sure u post what they come up with for a turbo. hillfolk years ago used a dual down pipe rabbit manifold and flipped it over and made an adaptor for the t3 flange, i think that'd be a pretty good setup, or watch for a used tubular manifold maybe. but i think the kinetic or other aftermarket 8v manifold will probably be fine... i can't remember the company that makes it
well what we're trying to do is bolt the dodge knuckle to the vw strut, the bolt holes seem to be the correct distance apart... so the this makes everything alot simpler. the only thing that could really be an issue is the thickness of the knuckle which can easily be spaced or machined down. he actually has a set of later daytona knuckles that were machined down to work with the older strut so he can run the bigger brakes.
i had manetioned the neon stuff to him, he said the rear suspension is different on the dodge because it uses and actual strut? seemed like he said something else was different too, that or the vw stuff is just cheaper haha, we'll see since i got a turbo yesterday so sometime next week i'll be meeting up with him. its a turbonetics a t3/t4 to4e 50 trim with the newer f1 57 wheel, i got it for a song so i just bought it but i don't know how well it would work on anything i have haha. how ever i do believe it is the same turbo dave at passenger performance used on his 195whp build
do you have any idea how much $$ is involved in buying materials to build your own tubular mani?
it can be done for VERY CHEAP.. the flanges are the most expensive part, if you have to buy them.. if you can cut the flanges yourself, then the price goes WAY DOWN..
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#53
by
Jetmugg
on 21 May, 2012 09:10
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The valvetrain goodies arrived on Friday. The block arrived today. I will drop off the valvetrain stuff at the machine shop later this week, and maybe the block, too.
I still need to figure out the best course of action for notching the 1.5 pistons for oil squirter clearance. I'd like to come up with a fixture to hold the pistons at the correct "clock" position in a Bridgeport, then mill the notches. I will then smooth out the sharply milled corners by hand.
As far as the exhaust goes, I need to finish up a bunch of chassis work, then will install a mock-up engine in the vehicle, to see where it makes the most sense to route the exhaust, mount the turbo, and dump it out. The exhaust does not necessarily need to go out the bottom. The rules allow for dumping the exhaust out through a fender. I have quite a bit of work to do in that department, figuring out the location for all the underhood components and plumbing.
Steve.
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#54
by
Jetmugg
on 23 May, 2012 05:38
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1/2 price weekend at Pick-N-Pull junkyards over Memorial Day weekend. I'm hoping to score some goodies for the suspension, and maybe a shifter setup, pedal cluster, and exhaust manifold.
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#55
by
R.O.R-2.0
on 23 May, 2012 10:18
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1/2 price weekend at Pick-N-Pull junkyards over Memorial Day weekend. I'm hoping to score some goodies for the suspension, and maybe a shifter setup, pedal cluster, and exhaust manifold.
exhaust mani for a TD?!
in a junk yard?!?!
good luck dude. ive never even seen a TD in a junk yard..
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#56
by
bugnut
on 23 May, 2012 14:37
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A note on starting. If the CR is too low to start when cold you could add in a grid heater from a dodge cummins. I did that to my 1.6/1.9 combo and it works great. even starts when the temps were around 0. without the grid heater i could not get it to stay running with just the glow plugs. heck even now with the temps around 50 and 60 i still use the grid heat. it helps it out that much better. Also I got a feeling my CR is a little low due to all my blowby out the valve cover.
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#57
by
Jetmugg
on 24 May, 2012 07:17
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That's a good tip on the Cummins grid heater if it becomes necessary. I will do a little research on the Cummins setup. If this thing will start at 70F and above, I should be OK.
This is a race-only engine and vehicle, so I won't be worried about starting on cold mornings for a daily commute or anything like that.
As far as an exhaust manifold in a junkyard, I didn't say anything about a TD manifold.
I agree that it would be extremely rare to find a TD in a junkyard, but you can surely bet that if you don't go there looking, you will never find one.
My junkyard shopping list consists mainly of Chrysler suspension goodies, which will not be a challenge to find. Any VW stuff that I come across will be a bonus.
Steve.
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#58
by
RabbitJockey
on 07 Jun, 2012 08:31
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well we finally go together and tried it. vw rabbit suspension is nearly a bolt on for the charger
strut bearings are basically the same(even tho they'd be easy to swap around if they weren't) but this means any mk1 vw strut bearing option is also an option for the old turbo dodge guys
the knuckle mount bolts are the same size, and also have the same center to center distance, the only difference is that the width of the dodge knuckle is slightly wider, but that is a simple just drop it off at the machine shop and get something like 40-80 thousandths taken off. Which also makes me curious about the width of a mk2 knuckle, does anyone know? maybe the dodge knuckle will fit directly into a mk2 strut
rears are a direct fit, brandon said when he had bought shocks before that the box had a rabbit listed as a car the shocks would fit
and here are the fronts side by side
freaking wild. all it takes is having the knuckles milled and the vw stuff will work.
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#59
by
Jetmugg
on 08 Jun, 2012 08:45
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Excellent news there. Very cool that the VW suspension parts are a near-bolt-on for the Charger. It looks like the Rabbit front end setup will result in a significant drop with the coil-overs shown in the photo. Is that part of the plan? It also looks like the struts and springs that were removed were in pretty good shape to begin with.
I'll definitely be interested to see how the car sits when it's back on the ground.
One of the things that I've been daydreaming about is the possibility of air ride struts on the front to give the ability to "air up" the front for loading, unloading, and moving the car around, then being able to "slam it" for minimum ground clearance at race time. Air ride VW struts are relatively easy to come by.
I don't have many good photos, but I managed to score a set of Plymouth Acclaim knuckles (essentially work as dropped spindles on a Charger/Rampage/etc) brakes and drive axles, a complete set of Neon struts, springs, and upper mounts for the front end. The Acclaim is also a 5-lug on 100mm bolt pattern, which gives a good selection of 15" wheels.
For the rear, I grabbed the stub axles, backing plates, drums, and everything that goes with them from a Chrysler LeBaron. It's a direct bolt-on setup to replace the factory Rampage stuff, and will give the matching 5-lug pattern as the front end.
My cylinder head is still at the machine shop, along with all the valvetrain goodies. I'm told it will be ready to pick up next week.
Steve.