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#45
by
Mark(The Miser)UK
on 25 Aug, 2011 14:08
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Absolutely.
Here's the torque info...
I thought that the Bentley you have mentions the 1V in some respects but fails to give the torquing procedure specifically. I think I'm right in saying it does mention procedure forthe ME and the MF. I suspect that they re the same. As the 1V is turboed with no boost, its power output is in between the n/a and the TD. there is no reason not to use the same torque procedure. As stated, the 1V head and the MF head are the same 'bare head'part number.
068 103 351 AA 'JP'
068 103 351 AB 'JR'
068 103 351 AC 'ME'
068 103 351 AD '1V &MF'
068 103 351 AF 'RA'
068 103 351 AK 'SB'
If you don't like all that seemingly excessive angle torquing, simply follow my 'contraversal' procedure dotted around the forum...
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#46
by
92EcoDiesel Jetta
on 25 Aug, 2011 14:11
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I'd be interested in reading your controversial procedure. Please post a link so I can be sure I'm reading the right one.
Absolutely.
Here's the torque info...
I thought that the Bentley you have mentions the 1V in some respects but fails to give the torquing procedure specifically. I think I'm right in saying it does mention procedure forthe ME and the MF. I suspect that they re the same. As the 1V is turboed with no boost, its power output is in between the n/a and the TD. there is no reason not to use the same torque procedure. As stated, the 1V head and the MF head are the same 'bare head'part number.
068 103 351 AA 'JP'
068 103 351 AB 'JR'
068 103 351 AC 'ME'
068 103 351 AD '1V &MF'
068 103 351 AF 'RA'
068 103 351 AK 'SB'
If you don't like all that seemingly excessive angle torquing, simply follow my 'contraversal' procedure dotted around the forum...
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#47
by
Mark(The Miser)UK
on 25 Aug, 2011 15:00
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Basically, I use the same procedure as the Bentley, only I use a quality 'readable' torque gauge.
Once starting the 90 degree stuff, I only angle torque each sequence until gauge stops moving.
For the engine warm and after about 500 miles or so, I use the old method of slackening one at a time and retorquing[angled flatlining again].
I slacken the bolts first to remove any nasty binding of the washer that we have all experienced, where we have thought a bolt had snapped.
With this method bolt has very nearly remained within the elastic range.
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#48
by
92EcoDiesel Jetta
on 25 Aug, 2011 18:38
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For those with a 1V engine and the Bentley that I have but not this forum to consult with, if they followed the procedure in the manual, they would have been directed to not do the 1000 mile torque sequence. What will happen? Will head gasket failure be imminant and how long will it take?
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#49
by
Mark(The Miser)UK
on 26 Aug, 2011 05:11
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For those with a 1V engine and the Bentley that I have but not this forum to consult with, if they followed the procedure in the manual, they would have been directed to not do the 1000 mile torque sequence. What will happen? Will head gasket failure be imminant and how long will it take?
We are just going round in circles here 
Head gasket failure may be imminent and it may not. There is no WILL about it. If I have this correct; your Bentley states for ME [an n/a] and MF a turboed, fuel boosted engine, use extra torque after 1000 miles.
Does it say ONLY? Please quote the Bentley.Are you saying that in it's absence of mention of 1V, that it is excluded from the procedure? How about JR and JP? or CY for that matter.The 1V uses exactly the same head as the MF.
If the ECO's max fuel screw is in a different place, from factory, then it [the pump] can produce the same power as the MF, and thus the same loadings/strain on the head and gasket.
The pump aneroid lid is the only difference between the two setups. [1V and MF]. OK, the turbo is a different size IIRC I would definitely do a final retorque on any engine that had a fiberous gasket. I would not wait for 1000 miles; I'd pick say 500ish. The reason being that if there is an issue, it may show up as a leak before you get to 1000 miles.
I would not do 90 degrees, but simply slacken each one and bring it back up to stretch point, which will be between 95 to 105 lb ft. When slackening, you may well find a bolt or two which undo surprisingly [shockingly] easy, this is in my opinion one of the reasons for the later tightening.The Bentley is good, but definitely not infallable. Not even sure if writeups were from experience of a practical strip down or simply printing of the VAG mags. THe VAG mags contain metal clips for 'updates' Often quite a few were inserted, because VAG was on a learning curve, just the same as you or I. Worse still is the failure by VAG engineers to insert the upgrades to their manual... At least the old Haynes manuals were based on someone actually taking the car apart, but even that dumbed down by the end of the mk2-mk3 stuff. EDIT:
I have just looked at my Quantum Bentley. 1985 ed. It does mention as you do the 90 deg turn after 1000miles. I also have the official VAG mag for the same period. Printed in Germany, but English Edition. It mentions retorque after 1000km. Thus the Bentley boys stuffed it on that one, and it should read 625miles. I assume that because the procedure is the same in the Q as the Golf, Jetta, the numbskulls just copied chunks across the books.
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#50
by
92EcoDiesel Jetta
on 26 Aug, 2011 06:36
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If I have this correct; your Bentley states for ME [an n/a] and MF a turboed, fuel boosted engine, use extra torque after 1000 miles.
Does it say ONLY? Please quote the Bentley.
Are you saying that in it's absence of mention of 1V, that it is excluded from the procedure? How about JR and JP? or CY for that matter.
Here it is exactly word for wor from my Bentley (85-92)
"For engine codes ME and MF only, after approx 1000 miles, retorque bolts in sequence an additional 1/4 turn, w/o loosening and w/o interruption."
My 85-92 Bentley only covers diesel engines ME, MF and 1V. I think the other engine codes you mentioned are older than 85?
That's a serious omission. I'm gonna check if there's an errata on it on Bentley's web site and also email them.
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#51
by
theman53
on 26 Aug, 2011 06:49
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after approx 1000 miles, retorque bolts in sequence an additional 1/4 turn, w/o loosening and w/o interruption
That is every VW engine with 12mm tty bolts and fiber gasket.
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#52
by
92EcoDiesel Jetta
on 26 Aug, 2011 06:56
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#53
by
92EcoDiesel Jetta
on 26 Aug, 2011 06:59
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Do you not believe what I wrote regarding what my Bentley says in regards to the head gasket torque procedure?
At issue here is why they wrote what they did and I want to get to the bottom of it.
after approx 1000 miles, retorque bolts in sequence an additional 1/4 turn, w/o loosening and w/o interruption
That is every VW engine with 12mm tty bolts and fiber gasket.
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#54
by
Mark(The Miser)UK
on 26 Aug, 2011 07:52
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My VAG service manual for the 1.5 and 1.6 diesel engine was printed in late 1982.
All figures for torque are in metric apart from the angled bits. This implies a direct copy of the German language one, and it was printed by the Germans.
Thus this manual is for mech heads specifically and for Golf,Jetta, and Scirocco. It has update bulletins to 1987.
The Quantum Bentley book was printed in 1986, and also deals with the mech heads. torque levels correspond, but genuine VAG says 1000km, whilst the B book says 1000miles are the Germans wrong? Or is it a percolated error?
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#55
by
Luckypabst
on 26 Aug, 2011 10:14
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I don't believe the exact mileage to be so critical vs. an easy to track number on the odometer, that allows sufficient heat/cool cycles for the head gasket to reach its operating thickness.
And technically, 1000 km could be one single heat/cool cycle on these cars... I've been refilling at 620 miles and would run continuously between fill-ups. 1000 miles could potentially be seen before the second thermal cycle is complete.
Chris
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#56
by
Mark(The Miser)UK
on 26 Aug, 2011 11:04
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I don't believe the exact mileage to be so critical vs. an easy to track number on the odometer, that allows sufficient heat/cool cycles for the head gasket to reach its operating thickness.
And technically, 1000 km could be one single heat/cool cycle on these cars... I've been refilling at 620 miles and would run continuously between fill-ups. 1000 miles could potentially be seen before the second thermal cycle is complete.
Chris
True, but if the reason for doing the extra turning is a safety measure to take up slack, I'd rather do it sooner than later; in fact with my technique there is room for a later torquing too.
I see your point about the long trip, but hopefully a coffee break or two intervened. These engines are designed by Germans in Germany, and not an Auzzie on Ayers rock commuting to the seaside 
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#57
by
theman53
on 26 Aug, 2011 12:57
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Do you not believe what I wrote regarding what my Bentley says in regards to the head gasket torque procedure?
At issue here is why they wrote what they did and I want to get to the bottom of it.
after approx 1000 miles, retorque bolts in sequence an additional 1/4 turn, w/o loosening and w/o interruption
That is every VW engine with 12mm tty bolts and fiber gasket.
Call them. No one here know's why for sure, we can only speculate.
As for the details, it is like picking apart fly crap out of black pepper that spilled. You are way too into this wording when we all know what the bottom line for the engine is.
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#58
by
Mark(The Miser)UK
on 26 Aug, 2011 14:56
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Hey, I like black pepper; especially the course stuff, and now you've got me looking