Injection pump timing on a 1.6/1.9 franken engine - page 1 - IDI Engine - VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.

• Injection pump timing on a 1.6/1.9 franken engine by Powered by Spearco on 05 Jun, 2011 20:25
• So the last time I set my pump timing to what Giles said to was 1.0mm. It starts right up, hardly smokes but once at operating temp. driving it in town, it sounds really rattley. So I backed off some timing by ear till no more noise was present. I double checked what the actual timing was with a guage, (.63mm) , and thats what I dyno'ed with.
  
  So for the hell of it, I thought I would bump it up to .80mm for the drag strip. Thinking more timing would yield more PWR. its hard to say unless I re-dyno it again to compair. But just driving down the road, its rattley again? So once home, I re-timed it to what it was before.
  
  My question is, is there anyone else that has the same franken engine build that I do, (as far as head, block, pump and injectors) and what is your injection pump timed to?
  
  My injectors are 1.9 AAZ dual spring style with GTD nozzles set to 155 bar. The pump is a Giles special with all the fixens along with a TDI 10mm head and plunger to match. Giles did all the pump stuff.
  
• #1 by ORCoaster on 05 Jun, 2011 20:32
• Did Giles have these specs when he built your pump?
  
  
  My injectors are 1.9 AAZ dual spring style with GTD nozzles set to 155 bar.
  
  My understanding is that his pumps are tuned to the type of nozzles you tell him you have.
  
  I have a 1.6 NA and it sounds "Marbley" in the mid ranges from just off idle to about 2000 rpm I think.  Don't have the tach I would like to have on it.  Once I am up and cruising at 35 or so it smooths right out.  Not really worried about it, yet.
• #2 by Powered by Spearco on 05 Jun, 2011 20:44
• At first, I told him 1.6TD injectors with GTD nozzles, but again the same concern. So I tried the AAZ injectors. Both 155 Bar.
  
  When I swaped over to the dual spring injectors I also changed the delivery valves with the recommened shims that Giles offered.
  
  I remember Sauerkraut  saying something about a higher breaking psi, but I don't remember why. I gotta search his build and see what he said.
• #3 by Powered by Spearco on 05 Jun, 2011 20:48
• Come on Andrew, say something  .  You build pumps. 
• #4 by nathan_b on 05 Jun, 2011 21:41
• I ran my franken motor at 1.00mm for 10,000 miles, and I finally bumped timing to 1.15 and it is much less rattly at mid unboosted throttle., and about 8mpg gain. Egts are down a lot too, it's about 110-115hp now, and on a 0-60 run it won't be over 900f. 65mph = 575 egt every time. 75mph is 600. 55 is 475 : )
  
  so although I have a stock tuned 1.6td pump and 1.6 nozzles, I thought you should bump up your timing  to quiet down a franken motor.
  
  and finally, if you want something to drive and sound stock, don't build something not stock 
• #5 by Powered by Spearco on 05 Jun, 2011 21:59
• Lol.
  
  Yeah, I guess I shouldn't complain. After all, its going to be driven full throttle a quarter mile at a time anyways.
• #6 by Powered by Spearco on 05 Jun, 2011 22:03
• When I pull the engine out of the truck, its getting a stock FW and I'm going to pull the head off to see how everything is doing.
• #7 by bugnut on 06 Jun, 2011 17:56
• With my engine I have marbles running around in it when in town.  I have tried .95 to start with.  And then I tried 1mm and that sounded the same except when I got on it full throttle.  Then I had some weird ultra loud noises from under the hood.  So I backed it back down to .95 and same thing.  Turned the water injection off and still there.  Moved the timing to 1.04 and now it seems better on the top end.  Need to climb a hill next to the jersey barrier.  Cant hear the rattle from inside the cab but roll the window down and drive next to a jersey barrier.  You can hear the engine loud as day.  If I still hear it I will move it +- from where I have it now. 
  
   My injectors are stock rebuilt by Giles and the pump is a super pump that is turned in a 1/2 of the fuel screw.  Boost pressure is at 38psi.   Don't know much about the pump other than that.  Oh yeah, I also have my boost pin out.  All fuel delivery is controlled by the skinny pedal.
• #8 by Powered by Spearco on 06 Jun, 2011 20:53
• Wow. Thats some great info. Thanks.
  
  It's been a year sence it was timed that high, but I'll try it again and check coolant and EGT temps again during warm up and a full throttle blast to compair to where its at now, .63mm.
  
  For me, just driving down the freeway, I can hear how load its rattling. It seems like it could be doing damage to the crank journals or rod bearings.
• #9 by R.O.R-2.0 on 07 Jun, 2011 12:08
• Quote from: Powered by Spearco on 06 Jun, 2011 20:53

  Wow. Thats some great info. Thanks.
  
  It's been a year sence it was timed that high, but I'll try it again and check coolant and EGT temps again during warm up and a full throttle blast to compair to where its at now, .63mm.
  
  For me, just driving down the freeway, I can hear how load its rattling. It seems like it could be doing damage to the crank journals or rod bearings.
  

  
  the more retarded it is, the more boost and EGTs you will have..
  
  my car was making 40 psi boost when i blew the head off the block.. turbo was singing like a supercharger..
• #10 by rallydiesel on 07 Jun, 2011 14:42
• I would time it by ear and smoothness and not worry about the number. There's a lot of variables that are changed with a franken engine and custom pump that make the dial gauge measurement kind of useless.
• #11 by regcheeseman on 10 Jun, 2011 04:37
• Useful reading here, I've got a 1.9/1.6 engine, 155 BAR injectors and a 10mm TDI pump too.
  
  My pump has been timed to 1.2 on the bench, as I finally bolted in the engine on custom engine mounts only last night, I cannot add my experience yet too this thread, but hopefully very soon.
• #12 by nathan_b on 10 Jun, 2011 16:31
• What turbo do you guys have on your frankenmotors? I have an aaz-big k14. The turbo probably has a lot to do with cruising combustion rattling, small turbo = more boost cruising.
  
  AHU motors with k03s run max boost at anything over 75mphish and they are super quiet running motors..
• #13 by 8v-of-fury on 10 Jun, 2011 18:09
• ko3's are a good turbo. Max boost by 1900, and efficient almost to red-line. They could stand to be turned up to 15-17 psi though..
• #14 by vanagonturbo on 10 Jun, 2011 20:38
• I timed mine by ear. I have no idea what its at right now. I can check tomorrow and post in this thread. Mine seems to run pretty ok. Cold starts are a b1tch, but I dont have the advance cable hooked up either. After a good rev session when cold, it runs fine, no misfires and less smoke. I speculate that I currently have around 130whp. turbo is a gt2056. not ideal at all... but better than some others