AAZ Dowel Crank fix now no start - page 1 - IDI Engine - VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.

• AAZ Dowel Crank fix now no start by stugots on 06 May, 2011 19:31
• So I followed some links to do the dowel fix on the crank, as this is my 2nd engine and knew the symptoms of the keyway starting to go. 
  
  A machinist drilled through the new crankshaft sprocket and I managed to drill the crank nose (was easy with colbalt bits).  But my problem is now, foolish me I didn't mark the timing belt or lock it in place, but I do recall not moving the top end of the engine while taking the belt off the crankshaft. 
  
  Marked the crankshaft position and installed new sprocket, all was well until I tried to start and it almost did but heard some clanking / not a good noise coming from the engine.
  
  so I guess my question is, is the engine shot? and if the timing was out that much while trying to start does this mean its time for the junk yard?
  
  I am able to find TDC on the flywheel but there does not seem to be any noticable marking on the IP or the camshaft.....
  
  any help be great.
  
  
• #1 by the caveman on 06 May, 2011 19:54
• It might be toast . After doing a crank fix, it's even more important to be 100% sure TDC is where is supposed to be, and then reinstall the timing belt by the proper procedure.
• #2 by stugots on 06 May, 2011 20:12
• Quote from: the caveman on 06 May, 2011 19:54

  It might be toast . After doing a crank fix, it's even more important to be 100% sure TDC is where is supposed to be, and then reinstall the timing belt by the proper procedure.
  

  
  
  Thanks for the reply.....
  
  when I took the belt off the crankshaft the keyway was in the 6 O'clock postition, reinstalled the new one at 6 but did turn the crankshaft without the belt on it.
  
  
  I have a bently manual but can't seem to find the proper procedure to do the entire timing over again, its vague, any idea where to find?
  
  
  thanks.
  
• #3 by BillyWillicker on 06 May, 2011 21:07
• Its toasted.  I bought a core engine that this happened to, 1 severely bent valve and 8 punched out lifters.  It would be a good time to rebuild the head or get a good used/new one.  Once you get the head fixed make sure to time it up very accurately, it needs to be accurate.
• #4 by Rabbit79 on 06 May, 2011 21:19
• I have no experience with an AAZ but if it's like the VW diesel engines I've worked on it shouldn't matter what position you put the sprocket on the crank. It's only function is to drive the belt, not to set the timing with.
• #5 by Thezorn on 06 May, 2011 22:37
• By the sounds of it your saying your not sure exactly how to retime the engine? I may have interperated that wrong but ill post anyways
  
  First off, do the easiest thing to do, lock the pump, rotate the pump around till the smallest hole is at about 2:30? ish. youll see the hole behind it that your 7/16"  1/4"drive socket will slide (forcefully) into. What that is doing is locking your pump so you dont have to worry about it
  
  Second make sure your flywheel TCD mark is 100% spot on. 100% spot on
  
  Third make sure you Cam is also in the TDC? location. Best (or the cheapest) way to do this is put a standard 3" door hinge in the slot at the opposite end of the Cam. Now here is where you have to be carfull. You could easily put the cam 180 degrees out of TDC, you want it at the position where the lobes of the CYL. 1 are both pointing outwards, and the lifter has no pressure on it.
  
  Once everything is locked into place carfully place the timing belt back on. I personally put it on the crank first, but that could be wrong in some people opinion. Its nice to have a buddy with you watching the TDC mark on the flywheel to tell you if you move it or not.
  
  Most important thing to do is check the flywheel after you timing belt is on to make sure that you are 100% on TDC. After you have made sure you are 100% correct I like to turn the engine over with a ratchet a few rotations just to make sure. If something is going to bind up its always better to find out that way.
  Even though you tried to start it with the timing waaaay out the chances are the engine is still in perfectly fine condition. My crank sprocket has slipped on me 2 times, (I have since upgraded to a TDI sprocket) but both times the valves were just fine.
  
  Once it runs youll know if your valves are dinked or not.
  If you already knew all this then forget I posted it, but hopefully it will help someone else
  
• #6 by nathan_b on 06 May, 2011 22:44
• sprocket can only go on one way, I think he is referring to the pulley. Which the case is NEVER TRUST THE PULLEY!!!
  
  and always turn it over by hand first.
  
  1. Put it in time (according to the flywheel. (Have valve cover off to do this so look for obvious damage)
  2. Compression check
  3. Tear down or run it depending on results.
  
  heed our warnings, slightly bent valves slightly lowering compression numbers WILL BREAK OFF eventually. Probably while going 80mph and it will destroy lots of stuff.
  
  it's that "easy"
• #7 by Thezorn on 07 May, 2011 00:40
• Quote from: nathan_b on 06 May, 2011 22:44

  sprocket can only go on one way, I think he is referring to the pulley. Which the case is NEVER TRUST THE PULLEY!!!
  
  and always turn it over by hand first.
  
  1. Put it in time (according to the flywheel. (Have valve cover off to do this so look for obvious damage)
  2. Compression check
  3. Tear down or run it depending on results.
  
  heed our warnings, slightly bent valves slightly lowering compression numbers WILL BREAK OFF eventually. Probably while going 80mph and it will destroy lots of stuff.
  
  it's that "easy"
  

  
  Very true, OP, do a leak down test to see if your valves are seating properly after you have it running again to see for sure.
• #8 by stugots on 07 May, 2011 13:24
• I am having problems trying to find TDC on the flywheel.
  There are two noticable marks not too far apart, in between there is a small slit..what do I use?
• #9 by stugots on 07 May, 2011 19:01
• so here is my update.
  
  I got the car to start and it doesn't sound bad at all. but its the injection pump I am thinking the timing is off a bit, as there is alot of white smoke and absolutely no power, feels like its in 5th gear when I am in 1st.   I didn't have a dail gauge for the IP and pretty much guessed where the pulley should be.
  
  so is the IP timing off enough to give me no power and hella lot white smoke'
  ?
  
  Do I need to get a special VW Dial gauge or can I get one at princess auto and make it fit?
  
  Thanks again.
  
  almost happy....
  
  
• #10 by theman53 on 07 May, 2011 19:12
• Your cam and crank timing could be off. Please tell us that it is perfect before starting again. No power and white smoke could be bent valves.
• #11 by stugots on 07 May, 2011 19:27
• Quote from: theman53 on 07 May, 2011 19:12

  Your cam and crank timing could be off. Please tell us that it is perfect before starting again. No power and white smoke could be bent valves.
  

  
  
  I used the slit on the flywheel for TDC and CYL number one lobs were in the up position on the camshaft, put the belts on and everything was locked up, except the IP.  my IP sprocket does not have 4 round holes it has the not so round holes, and can't see how to lock the IP, there seems to be a keyway on the inside of the IP sprocket and a hole behind the spocket at 12 o'clock.  not sure if that means anything....
  
  anyway, thanks for the help..I will keep trying.
  
  http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/855/iplocked.jpg
  (this is what most of the IP sprockets loook like)
  
  but this is what mine looks like .....
  http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/838/injection20pump20pulley.gif
  
  as I mentioned there is a keyway and a hole for a drill bit at 12 O'clock and I am unable to fit a nut lock. 
  
• #12 by stugots on 08 May, 2011 09:42
• Quote from: libbybapa on 08 May, 2011 08:12

  So the cam and lifters all looked ok?  The crank rotated by hand without any strange metal-on-metal?  The lifters moved up and down correctly while the crank was rotated?
  

  
  Everything seemed fine when turning the crank by hand. 
  
  
  I guess the only way to find the correct timing for the IP is with a dial gauge eh?
• #13 by ORCoaster on 08 May, 2011 10:07
• Looking at the picture of your pulley on the IP it appears that there is a notch of some sort at the 12 o'clock position.  And with the three equally spaced bolts that hold it on I can envision somebody taking it off and getting it on a third off.  Is there no little nick or notch on the edge of the IP pulley?  That is what most of us have and use.  It lines up with another notch in the bracket that holds the pump on. 
  
  Look all around and run your fingernail along the edge.  It may be packed with grease and grime. 
  
  Strange setup, You may be able to adjust the other screws on the IP pump after, yes after you determine it is properly timed.
  
• #14 by stugots on 08 May, 2011 10:37
• Quote from: ORCoaster on 08 May, 2011 10:07

  Looking at the picture of your pulley on the IP it appears that there is a notch of some sort at the 12 o'clock position.  And with the three equally spaced bolts that hold it on I can envision somebody taking it off and getting it on a third off.  Is there no little nick or notch on the edge of the IP pulley?  That is what most of us have and use.  It lines up with another notch in the bracket that holds the pump on.  
  
  Look all around and run your fingernail along the edge.  It may be packed with grease and grime.  
  
  Strange setup, You may be able to adjust the other screws on the IP pump after, yes after you determine it is properly timed.
  
  

  
  
  There is a Keyway knotch on the inner part of the sprocket, yes.  and the hole to fit a drill bit into is at 12. oclock.   I did not remove the sprocket while trying to retime everything. The only way to lock my sprocket would be to have it in the 12 O'clock position.  Right now the notch is at 2:30
  
  I didn't lock my IP pump before removal of the belt, so I have to find the starting point for the injection, I eyeballed it and she started, but only with lots of smoke and no power to take off in 1st gear.