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audi 5000 diesel and a k26?
by
tdotdub
on 26 Apr, 2011 16:17
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So I'm not a complete newbie but have my moments. Here is one...
So I got an 1987 audi 5000 diesel quattro
What is done to my engine
Giles pump and new injectors from bosch.
So far I did my swap, and everything by my self but I hit the wall with the most simple thing
I want to upgrade my stock k24 turbo to an k26 off an audi 5000 cd quattro (gaser)
How would I do this? I would put the manifold, turbo, wastegate, downpipe, intercooler setup all over from the gaser (got a parts car). But here is now where I have my question. Is there any difference in how the management of running the k26 to the k24? And if so how could I mod it to work to my diesel?
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#1
by
rabbid79
on 26 Apr, 2011 18:01
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Hi, I assume you have the 2.0 TD with K24? I think it's straight swap, but you'll want to plumb the wastegate directly to the intake manifold instead of through the WG frequency valve mounted to the firewall. In this case the electronics will be completely removed and wastegate spring will do all of the work.
I'm sure not all K24s were created equally, but the ones on the '91 200 TQ 20Vs were good for something like 275 HP. I'm not sure what the K24s off the 2.0 TDs are capable of. I think the K26 you'll be swapping on should be good for about 250 HP or something like that. I fear it may be a bit laggy though.
I'm interested to see pics. I have a '89 100 Quattro w/ TD and K24 myself.
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#2
by
BillyWillicker
on 26 Apr, 2011 18:37
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hey, I am a 5000CS veteran having owned a few over the years. The gasser k24 is good for ~275 MAX crank hp on a gasser, k26 is about the same. I would not put a gasser k26 on a diesel, it wont spool, ever. The k24 from a gasser would be nice on a diesel as a power upgrade, a little later spool, but way more flow than the diesel k24. Anyways, cool car, wanted to make my wagon one, but it died in a towing accident. On to the small chassis cars, I am converting an Audi also.
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#3
by
tdotdub
on 26 Apr, 2011 19:00
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Hi, Thanks for the replies guys
Yes I do fear it may be a laggy... BUT since I got a performance rebuilt injection pump I NEED and intercooler and NEED to keep the EGT's low. So with the complete k26 set up I can have this (reason has an intercooler and a dual downpipe set up) . Also I douth it will be a bit laggy reason is ALOT of fueling, and the audi had a big diesel rev band (more than vdubs).. Also the diesel pump is modded to up to 30 psi of boost.. So I am confident.
And does anyone know where I can get a different wastegate springs for my k26 turbo?
But I'll keep u guys posted
Rabbid79.. Yes, u pin pointed my question. I kinda have an idea what you talking about and thats exactly what I want to do! I want to delete the electronic side of it
But what do you mean by plumb the wastegate? And are you sure this would work?
Pics shall come soonish.
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#4
by
rabbid79
on 26 Apr, 2011 21:35
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Yes, pretty sure. It's just a conventional poppet-style wastgate. The spring pressure in some of the older ones is even adjustable with an allen wrench. There's a plate that needs to be removed from the top cover to access the bolt.
There's also a "vent" side to the wastegate that you'll want to vent to atmosphere. If memory serves, this is the side of the WG that is actually connected to the frequency valve on the firewall.
Anyway, you will need to connect the WG directly to the intake manifold. If I remember correctly, it uses a pretty heavy duty pressure line that will be a lot larger than the nipple on the intake manifold, so you'll need to adapt with some kind of transition fitting.
You can give the K26 a try, and then if it doesn't work, take BW's advice and use a K24 off a gasser. The mating flanges should be similar to the K26.
Are you also going to connect the water cooling lines to the K26?
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#5
by
mystery3
on 26 Apr, 2011 23:08
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#6
by
BillyWillicker
on 27 Apr, 2011 05:26
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beat me to it! The gasser k26 has a HUGE turbine, like it will support ~420hp of flow while the compressor has ~250hp of flow. Not a good match for a diesel. The gasser k24 is your best choice with the performance pump and intercooler, it was designed to have spool at around 2200rpm on a 2.2l twincam gas engine which means it should spool at the same time on your diesel and has enough flow to run to the top of the rev range on the diesel even with the intercooler. The gas k24 and k26 have identical mounting provisions, ar, water and oil are the same, so if you wanna try the k26 first as you have one, go for it. You will just be looking for a k24 while you work out the bugs.
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#7
by
R.O.R-2.0
on 27 Apr, 2011 09:01
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Hi, I assume you have the 2.0 TD with K24? I think it's straight swap, but you'll want to plumb the wastegate directly to the intake manifold instead of through the WG frequency valve mounted to the firewall. In this case the electronics will be completely removed and wastegate spring will do all of the work.
I'm sure not all K24s were created equally, but the ones on the '91 200 TQ 20Vs were good for something like 275 HP. I'm not sure what the K24s off the 2.0 TDs are capable of. I think the K26 you'll be swapping on should be good for about 250 HP or something like that. I fear it may be a bit laggy though.
I'm interested to see pics. I have a '89 100 Quattro w/ TD and K24 myself.
the K26 is NOT a bolt on upgrade.. i have a gasser K26, and a 2.0TD k24. along with the rest of the 2.0TD.. the manifold has a rectangular flange.. the K26 has a flange just like a volvo 740 gasser turbo.. and no waste gate. K26s off audis are external wastegated..
the K24 works good on the 2.0TD i thought..
my engine was so worn out it used as much oil as fuel. it still had good power from the K24..
idk what you are trying to achieve here, but you will find that the K26 is gonna have ALOT more lag than the K24, the exhaust side of the K26 flows way better, but it also spools slower, and like was noted, the K26 hot side is way too big for its own good.. the cold side cant keep up with the hot side..
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#8
by
rabbid79
on 27 Apr, 2011 15:31
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the K26 is NOT a bolt on upgrade.. i have a gasser K26, and a 2.0TD k24. along with the rest of the 2.0TD.. the manifold has a rectangular flange.. the K26 has a flange just like a volvo 740 gasser turbo.. and no waste gate. K26s off audis are external wastegated..
R.O.R., he has all of the parts off of the 5000 Turbo, turbo, manifold, downpipe, wastegate, oil lines, etc., so YES, it is a bolt-on upgrade.
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#9
by
tdotdub
on 27 Apr, 2011 16:30
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Rabbid79 -yes I will connect the coolant lines to the turbo.
I MIGHT start pulling the k26 turbo off the parts car tomorrow, or Friday. And yes its 50 50 what people say on the k26 turbo. But here is a few things why i'm going to do it.
-have a complete parts car
-and last season my turbo started leaking oil. So I put my performance diesel pump on it. First rip around the block had loads of power and than nothing. No matter what I do with the turbo no power from one second to the next. So chances are I blew it. Oh well
mystery3 - thanks for that link. First I will throw my turbo on than get that if it all works out great
Still don't exactly know how to plumb the turbo but my friend said he will tell me how to do it tomorrow
So its coming along nice! And guys I should have some pics soonish!
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#10
by
BillyWillicker
on 27 Apr, 2011 21:31
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To plumb the turbo per se, use everything on the passenger side of the 5000 gasser. The exhaust manifold, wastegate, downpipe, oil cooler/filter adapter/lines from the gasser, I dont think the diesel turbo is water cooled so plug the holes in the turbo for those, use the diesel intake manifold, using the k26 you will want to leave the wastegate boost lines disconnected as it will limit boost to ~18psi and spool quickest that way. And yea, use the gasser intercooler too! Should be a nice setup that way, an s4 k24 will probably be the nuts too as those can do 23psi thru the midrange on a 10v gasser and make 210whp. Awesome build man!
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#11
by
rabbid79
on 28 Apr, 2011 10:44
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The problem with using the diesel intake manifold is you'll need to find a throttle body that matches its mounting flange. The TB from the donor car may or may not work.
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#12
by
R.O.R-2.0
on 28 Apr, 2011 16:48
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why on earth would you need a throttle body on a diesel?!
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#13
by
rabbid79
on 28 Apr, 2011 18:12
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why on earth would you need a throttle body on a diesel?!
So you can easily connect the intercooler hose to it! Cut me some slack man! Obviously you would remove the butterfly valves.
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#14
by
Powered by Spearco
on 28 Apr, 2011 20:46
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Why remove them. Leave them in there, wire it open, and in the case of runaway, release the throttle plates.