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Close one!!!
by
Powered by Spearco
on 04 Nov, 2010 22:01
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Today a customer brought in a '95 B4 TDI wagon to look at some problems they wanted fixed. They recently bought it, so a general look over. Well being a diesel guy, I looked a the pump condition and T-belt condition. I took off the cover and wow. I thought that this must be some kind of a joke. How can a timing belt be that ground down and still run, if not jump time.
They drove it in to the shop and I drove it to the lift, no problems and the engine sounds good.
What was left of the belt, the tension felt really tight, I mean really tight. When I took the belt off to check for pump bushing wear and intermedeate shaft bearings, they were fine.
I thought some of you would like to see this. Please enjoy
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#1
by
maxfax
on 04 Nov, 2010 22:04
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WOW... Now the question is, how long had it been run like that....
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#2
by
Powered by Spearco
on 04 Nov, 2010 22:09
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I don't really know the whole story now, but they bought it in NY. and drove it here
. I think the PO did a T-belt job,PPFFF, yeah right. Just the WP.
If you look at it, the engine side of the belt is fine, its the outer side of the belt thats getting chewed up.
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#3
by
Settings
on 05 Nov, 2010 04:36
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Imagine the friction involved in eating through that much belt. Is the inside of the cover shiny, or missing at some point? You think you would smell a little burning and take a look
Though, I smell oil leaks...
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#4
by
Henchman
on 05 Nov, 2010 08:07
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The odd part is whatever caused it appears to have corrected itself. If you look at the belt, it is away from the end of the sprocket, so no longer wearing (unless it's wearing on the tensionner?) but as well if you look at the extra idler at between the cam and IP sprockets, it pretty shiny where the belt is and dirty were it was, with no gradient.
I suspect the tensionner was too tight and has probably worn the bearing a wee bit. It is amazing that the belt hasn't broken! One buck on a cold morning and I'm sure it's done!
Ian
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#5
by
Mark(The Miser)UK
on 05 Nov, 2010 08:16
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If that extra idler has any play in it at all , including flexing of the plate it is bolted to, then it will lean back, or upwards in this instance , and very 'cleverly' push the belt off
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#6
by
theman53
on 05 Nov, 2010 08:22
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You know how I know it isn't mine? It still ran, if it were me that would be a new head. That belt looks smaller than the 8V belts. I wonder what pushed it off?
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#7
by
blackdogvan
on 05 Nov, 2010 08:41
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If that extra idler has any play in it at all , including flexing of the plate it is bolted to, then it will lean back, or upwards in this instance , and very 'cleverly' push the belt off
Whats the story with the idler between the cam & the IP?? AAZ didn't have one, TDI some or all have it? Any thoughts on its functionality and or necessity?
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#8
by
Vincent Waldon
on 05 Nov, 2010 08:50
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All the VE pump TDIs have that extra idler... it exert a tiny bit of downward tension on the belt and seems to do a good job of keeping that long expanse between the cam and IP sprockets from flapping. It gets replaced along with the other two idlers and the automatic tensioner whenever the timing belt is replaced.
Here's the ALH version...not the best picture... but it gives you an idea of how the timing belt path works. There are actually three idlers (the red circles)... one large one by the water pump (green circle) and two small "anti-flap" rollers:
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#9
by
blackdogvan
on 05 Nov, 2010 09:00
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Any thoughts on issues associated with a TDI pump & not having one in place? More chance of jumping a tooth?
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#10
by
R.O.R-2.0
on 05 Nov, 2010 09:33
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FKN WOW MAN!!!
i about shat a buick when i pulled the cover off my 1.5 to find belt fibers everywhere.. but my belt only lost about 1/4" off the outside edge.. it was from a failed pump nose bushing.. belt was rubbing on the tensioner and cover SUPER bad..
BUT NOT THAT BAD!!! save that belt josh, its a wall hanger for sure!!
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#11
by
regcheeseman
on 05 Nov, 2010 09:43
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I had a belt wear in a similar fashion, the inside face of the flange on the tensioner was slightly damged, enough to chomp away at the edge of the belt.
Might be worth checking?
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#12
by
Powered by Spearco
on 05 Nov, 2010 11:12
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I've looked at all pullies and nothing stands out as a problem. Inter. Bearings are ok. The pump sprocket does move in and out slightly. Not really fimilular if its a problem. It doesn't move a whole lot. No up/down side to side. The tensioner is ok, but was tightened the rong way and over tightened. Set the belt tension and rolled it over a few times and it seems to track straight.
The PO had ust finnished up with the belt job (the wrong way) when the new owner picked it up. Says that its only got 5K miles on it, and yes did drive it from PA. Sorry not NY.
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#13
by
R.O.R-2.0
on 05 Nov, 2010 11:31
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nice to know that LESS THAN half a belt will run these engines..
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#14
by
Powered by Spearco
on 05 Nov, 2010 12:09
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It runs and belt tracks straight
. Oh, engine code is an AFN, so its a 110hp.