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AAZ in a 1988 Toyota 4Runner - advice needed.
by
dcg9381
on 02 Apr, 2010 11:18
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So I think I've been talked into doing an AAZ IDI motor over a TDI motor in my 1988 4runner.
The discussion on the TDI section:
http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=24980.0I built a gasser turbo motor for the 4runner, built a megasquirt EFI unit to plug-and-play with the existing harness, and had it running. I largely garaged it when gas got to high $3.00 per gallon, as at 15-18mpg, it's just not a good vehicle for me to commute in.
I'm leaning toward a low-milage 1.9L German AAZ (probably from ebay) at a cost of $2000-$2500. I'd use the Acme adapter set to bolt it to existing driveline.
The TDI is interesting to me, but I think I'm scared of due to the cost of the M-TDI pump. I'm not willing to experiment or fabricate my own.
So I have the following questions:
1) Things to watch out for on the 1.9L IDI (turbo?)
2) Where can I get a seal kit.. These are old motors, I'd want to at least do front and rear main seals, water pump, etc..
3) Can I adapt a T3 turbo?
4) Tuning - any references to good links, etc?
My concern with the 1.9L IDI is adequate power. I'm trying to get to 150hp / 200-250 ft/lbs to at least stay near par with the current turbo gasser...
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#1
by
410
on 02 Apr, 2010 11:59
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Considering the weight of the vehicle and the power numbers you are after, egts are going to be an issue with a precombustion chamber style engine. I still think that the 1998 jetta is by far your best option for $1500. The wiring for the injection pump is very straight forward. I'm not 100% sure but I don't think there is an imobilizer circuit for that year of tdi. Even if there was, all you need to make it work is already on the car. As for bumping up the power, changes to your computer are not nessasary. A simple resistor jumping two wires on the injection pump can give you an extra 20-30 hp easily. Have a look on tdiclub about the evry mod. Results are very impreesive. Also look up the bow mod to fix the idling side effect of the evry mod.
If this was strictly an offroad vehicle with tons of gear reduction and saw very little highway use, I'd say go for the 1.9aaz or even the 1.6td. But if you plan on cruising down the road at 75mph than tdi or mtdi is your best choice.
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#2
by
dcg9381
on 02 Apr, 2010 12:48
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410, what I've seen of the TDI harness and immobilizer circuit makes it something that I'm not sure I'm willing to integrate. Lots of projects take the entire VW dash as it's just simpler to keep it together and make it work that way. It looks like a disaster.
If I go TDI, I'm doing M-TDI. I'd budget that at $4000: $1500 for the local vehicle you're referencing, $1000 for a rebuild, $1300 for a pump, and I'm sure there are misc costs. This is versus $2500 for a low milage AAZ + swapping out some seals, and doing basic mods.
Also consider that I already have a T3 turbo & intercooler.
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#3
by
410
on 02 Apr, 2010 12:59
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If you choose the aaz, make sure you budget to modify the crank nose to accept a tdi crank gear. The original design does not hold up over time. This becomes more important to do if you plan on running ac. This adds more load to the weak design.
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#4
by
macka
on 03 Apr, 2010 08:27
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HIt up Giles and see what an mTDI pump would cost. Yea you can score one cheap on euro ebay, but, its an unknown. I'd also look at checking out Mexico for an engine. They are very cheap there. The only thing I'd do before comitting to purchase it, is run the serial to make sure it isn't stolen. Then run down and here it run before pulling it and importing it. Also look at buying a TDi rear end wreck from an insurance company. Then you'd have all the goodies at hand.
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#5
by
Rabbit on Roids
on 03 Apr, 2010 11:14
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if you choose the AAZ, it will be so easy to wire it. and you wont have to mess around with a franken pump with no real timing specs or anything like that. besides, AAZ engines are tough, pretty easy to get, and very easy to modify to get power out of them.
im just not a big fan of having a pump that no one knows much about.
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#6
by
dcg9381
on 03 Apr, 2010 13:23
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Thanks, guys.
I'm not willing to mess with a frankenpump. Giles has great feedback, but I think the pumps are around $1.3k.
Noted on the crank pulley of the AAZ... Thanks.
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#7
by
RabbitJockey
on 03 Apr, 2010 16:37
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i would just do the tdi full ecu swap. if you can get a full donor car its not so bad. you'll just need a wiring diagram and some time to sit down and figure out what you need and don't need. i dunno why everyone is so scared of it.
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#8
by
dcg9381
on 03 Apr, 2010 18:51
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I'm not scared of it, I'm simply not interested in doing it.
I've already done a megasquirt conversion - full integration with the stock harness... Then a turbo motor with a standalone. It's interesting, but I'm done playing with it.
Integrating two harnesses just isn't something that I want to do at this point, part of my interest in the swap is to KISS (Keep It Simple, Stupid). I also don't want to have to defeat or deal with the immobilizer... Stock electronics are enough for me. More electronics = more possibilities for problems.
Unfortunately, time plays as a factor here...
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#9
by
410
on 03 Apr, 2010 19:35
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keep in mind that the acme adapter kit for a toyota 5 speed is about $600. I think it's a bit more for the auto.
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#10
by
Syncroincity
on 03 Apr, 2010 20:27
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"Low Mileage German AAZ on eBay"... Budget in a full rebuild for motors from Quality German. Overpriced to begin with, his motors are from German scrapyards.
If you do get one, at least do a partial teardown to check out your tolerances. My injection pump was full of rust, according to Giles. The IPs on these motors are the neutered eco-pumps, there's no turbo fuel enrichment device (LDA), it'll cost $250 to upgrade the pump if you want to get out of your own way.
If you can wait a bit, advertise here wanted to buy... someone's always got one laying around, but you might have to jump some hoops if it's in Canada.
Both of these came from Quality German; note the wear, even on mine which was sold as "rebuilt".
http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=20551.0http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=19739.0
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#11
by
truckoSaurus08
on 03 Apr, 2010 22:03
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#12
by
mr.woods
on 04 Apr, 2010 07:32
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If you want to keep it simple then go AAZ.
Acme adaptor is for a 22r/22re trans. The only difference would be the flywheel or flexplate. If you have a machine shop you deal with I can send you a load of prints, files, and pics to have the adaptor made. You use a stock toyota flywheel/flexplate, and starter. Then all you need is a peice of 3/8'' plate. There are two little things you need to worry about when putting it into a toyota. 1-steering box gets in the way. 2-down pipe is on the wrong side. Neither one is hard to overcome. My toy/vw setup is still sitting on a skid together. I can post pics of it if you want.
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#13
by
Rabbit on Roids
on 04 Apr, 2010 08:20
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keep in mind that the acme adapter kit for a toyota 5 speed is about $600. I think it's a bit more for the auto.
who in their right minds would use a garbage toyota A340 auto trans? crap, if stock V6 toyota engines will tear these things apart, think of what an engine with some real torque will do. i would never willfully put a toyota auto back in something, unless it was an auto from a 80's 2wd pickup. asian borg warners
. ive owned both kinds of toyota autos, 4x4 autos are dumb. you cant even take the transfer case off. 2x4 autos are tough trannies. i beat on mine every day i had it. blew i dont know how many cooler lines. god that was a tough trans.
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#14
by
Rabbit on Roids
on 04 Apr, 2010 08:23
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If you want to keep it simple then go AAZ.
Acme adaptor is for a 22r/22re trans. The only difference would be the flywheel or flexplate. If you have a machine shop you deal with I can send you a load of prints, files, and pics to have the adaptor made. You use a stock toyota flywheel/flexplate, and starter. Then all you need is a peice of 3/8'' plate. There are two little things you need to worry about when putting it into a toyota. 1-steering box gets in the way. 2-down pipe is on the wrong side. Neither one is hard to overcome. My toy/vw setup is still sitting on a skid together. I can post pics of it if you want.
what is it in the way of? im going to do a 2.0 swap here soon, and i wanna know what sort of hurdles im gonna have to clear.