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1.8 CAMSHAFT
by
rodpaslow
on 29 Sep, 2009 13:56
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I'm looking at trying to get more out of my NA 1.6 and I have a spare camshaft from a 1.8 gasser I used to have. I currently work for a large machine shop, so consider modifying it would be easy.
If I could stick this in the 1.6 diesel; have it machine so the slot is in the end and taper is correct for the timing gear & also ensuring once in place, that it clears the pistons - would it make more power with this cam (i believe it's a 'G' gasser cam)?
Thanks!
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#1
by
Mark(The Miser)UK
on 29 Sep, 2009 14:57
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If I'm not mistaken, the gasser cams have significant valve overlap and so if fit to a diesel, pistons WOULD hit the valves.
Indeed, inlet opens 6 degrees before TDC, and exhaust closes 8 degrees after TDC.... OWCH! 
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#2
by
truckinwagen
on 29 Sep, 2009 15:30
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there are a number of Gasser cams that have negative overlap, the later Gas cars were dumbed down for emissions.
I have an ABA cam that I have been considering(close to 7 degrees negative overlap) but would probably have to machine valve pockets into the piston tops to keep them from mashing.
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#3
by
Rabbit on Roids
on 29 Sep, 2009 17:23
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why would you want to do that? people take diesel cams and put them in gassers and make rippers out of them. so that sounds like it would just be a waste of time.
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#4
by
foxracer1
on 29 Sep, 2009 17:26
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Theres a guy on TDI forum that who machined the valve reliefs and installed an aba cam in his tdi and it was said to run better. Can't remember the details. It did run better than with the stock tdi cam.
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#5
by
truckinwagen
on 29 Sep, 2009 17:28
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who has done that( referring to diesel cam in a gasser)
the diesel cams have substantially less valve lift and duration than gas cams, so they should not make more power.
the ABA cam is almost identical to the early diesel cams as far as duration and timing are concerned, but have substantially more lift, which makes it a prime candidate for trying out.
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#6
by
8v-of-fury
on 29 Sep, 2009 20:39
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from what i have read on my journeys there is little to be had in the means of performance gains.
If you want to see gains from a cam in a diesel engine, you have to first increase its ability to move air.
There is a reason they don't make performance cams for these engines..
it doesn't gain anything lol
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#7
by
Rabbit on Roids
on 30 Sep, 2009 08:51
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from what i have read on my journeys there is little to be had in the means of performance gains.
If you want to see gains from a cam in a diesel engine, you have to first increase its ability to move air.
There is a reason they don't make performance cams for these engines.. it doesn't gain anything lol
x2
that quote right there says it all. i rest my case.
and as for the diesel cam in a gas engine, they have a hella long duration or so im told. people used to take the 1.6's and put diesel cams in them when they turbo'd them.
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#8
by
foxracer1
on 30 Sep, 2009 13:23
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There aren't many people like us who want to mod a vw diesel. PP made cams for a while but in order for him to make any money the cost of the cam was higher than most fuel miser vw diesel owners wanted to pay. Theres just not a large enough market. Plus you'd have to machine your pistons for most anything larger than stock. Most people wouldn't wanna do that.
I will not believe the stock cam is the best for power in any engine from an oem for that matter. Maybe startability emmisions are better.
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#9
by
8v-of-fury
on 30 Sep, 2009 17:00
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camming a diesel is just not an economic way of gaining power. as foxracer1 stated you'd have to get in to some heavy machining to make the gains possible. not to mention the insane port job it would take to get all that extra air in there. and then you'd have to worry about your bottom end.
Look at all these big power making 1.6/1.9's not many use any sort of modified internals, to a degree. Cam's are not usually found on such lists. But if you were doing a mad power build and were going to be squeezing everything the engine had, Go for it
machine it to work.. probbaly rip some serious Siht
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#10
by
foxracer1
on 02 Oct, 2009 15:24
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The machining i'm talking about is for valve clearence on the pistons. Not all that heavy in my oppinion. Stock cams are not designed for power therefore a diff erent cam would yeild more power when emission regulations are not taken in to consideration when specing the cam. Its not as easy as dropping in the cam so its not for every body. Serious Cummins 5.9 guys are not using stock cams. Serious Tdi guys are not using stock cams. You can make lots of power with the stocker but i believe there is more to be had.
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#11
by
truckinwagen
on 02 Oct, 2009 16:01
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I agree, I have an ABA cam that may work, but it is a hydro cam, so it would take lots to amke it work in my mech head.
the ABA would be a good place to start if you are running a hydro head.
I am looking into the specs of the K-Grind camshaft, used in european gasser pickups, built for low end grunt.
the lift is about .5mm more intake and exhaust than the diesel one, and duration is 20* or so more intake and exhaust.
I am trying to find out the overlap specs, but they are supposed to fall on their face above 4000RPM in the gasser, so I am thinking there is a significant amount of negative overlap, perfect for a diesel.
TechtonicsTuning has them for sale for $50, and apparently they can be had from the dealer for about the same.
I am seriously thinking about using one, I might not even have to machine the pistons much to stuff it in.
-Owen
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#12
by
foxracer1
on 03 Oct, 2009 08:44
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I'm going to send a couple different diesel cams to comp cams and have them spec them out. That way i know exactly what lift and duration is across the whole lobe. Then compare it with the ABA cam and others.
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#13
by
truckinwagen
on 03 Oct, 2009 17:58
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that would be cool, the other thing that would be nice is to know how many degrees before and after TDC the valves have to close and open to not hit the piston top(with an unmodified piston)
so that one could look at cam specs and know whether the cam will work or not.
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#14
by
truckinwagen
on 03 Oct, 2009 20:40
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I think I will put a degree wheel on the crank and see how many degrees before and after TDC the piston is in the way of the valves.
I will put a HG on the block and mark the cylinder wall at something like 2mm down from the top of the gasket(most cams are measured with 1mm of lift to mark when a valve opens or closes) and spin the crank.
I will note the degrees when the piston comes to this line before and after TDC, this should give us an idea of what cams will interfere and which wont(based on the cam specs for valve open and close times)
hopefully there are some cams out there that fit the bill better than the stock diesel one.
-Owen