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1.6TD bottom / AAZ head & timing
by
myke_w
on 18 Sep, 2009 13:46
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Well I'm finally running my AAZ head on a 1.6TD bottom end, but I'm having some tuning issues.
I'm running a Giles 1.6TD Super Pump, stock 1.6TD injectors with new DN0SD293 nozzles.
Seems great on power, EGTs stay low boost builds quickly and really flows --- BUT--- it's horribly noisy, like to the point where it sounds like marbles are literally bouncing around in the combustion chamber, and at idle and lows revs it stinks like raw fuel and smokes blueish.
It starts like crap even with long glows and wont idle until it's warm, even then it idles like crap. It rattles like a can of bolts until you really get on it, then it cleans up, doesn't smoke, and isn't noisy.
I'm running a 3 notch metal head gasket.
I was initially timed at .95 and it barely ran. I'm now timed at 1.05 and it's better, but not great.
Anybody got any feedback?
Should I give it more timing? Perhaps I'm missing something?
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#1
by
theman53
on 18 Sep, 2009 18:31
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What piston protrusion did you have? It would seem that the 3 notch with the added space of the 1.9L head might have that effect if the 3 notch was a liittle too big.
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#2
by
fatmobile
on 18 Sep, 2009 23:31
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Did you try rotating the pump while the engine is running and see where it sounds best?
What cam did you use with this?
1.6 or 1.9?
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#3
by
myke_w
on 19 Sep, 2009 07:16
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What piston protrusion did you have? It would seem that the 3 notch with the added space of the 1.9L head might have that effect if the 3 notch was a liittle too big.
Protrusion was in the 2 notch range - I went big because I knew I'd be hammering the snot out of it... Didn't realize if could pose a problem other than on cold starts.
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#4
by
myke_w
on 19 Sep, 2009 07:20
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Did you try rotating the pump while the engine is running and see where it sounds best?
What cam did you use with this?
1.6 or 1.9?
I didn't try that yet. Stock 1.9 AAZ cam, is that what you would have used.
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#5
by
the caveman
on 19 Sep, 2009 07:40
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Did you try rotating the pump while the engine is running and see where it sounds best?
What cam did you use with this?
1.6 or 1.9?
I would also do this as it's the easiest thing to start with, although if you had to bump it to 1.05 to get it to run, i would think more it that's more HG/compression issue. Did the big marbling start after bumping up the timing ? because if so then the high timing is perhaps compensating for the low compression
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#6
by
myke_w
on 19 Sep, 2009 14:36
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The marbling has always been there, more timing didn't really help that any. Adding timing has only helped with the way it starts and with how much it smokes when cold.
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#7
by
rallydiesel
on 19 Sep, 2009 15:18
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So are you saying it quiets down only when you rev it or does it eventually quiet down after it warms up enough?
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#8
by
myke_w
on 19 Sep, 2009 15:56
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it only quiets under heavy load, it can be fully warmed up and it will still be super noisy.
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#9
by
53 willys
on 19 Sep, 2009 17:34
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it only quiets under heavy load, it can be fully warmed up and it will still be super noisy.
Myke you should PM zukgod1....he is real sharp with the hybrid head's....
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#10
by
Rabbit TD
on 20 Sep, 2009 18:31
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Did you try rotating the pump while the engine is running and see where it sounds best?
What cam did you use with this?
1.6 or 1.9?
I would also do this as it's the easiest thing to start with, although if you had to bump it to 1.05 to get it to run, i would think more it that's more HG/compression issue. Did the big marbling start after bumping up the timing ? because if so then the high timing is perhaps compensating for the low compression
I've found out that recomended timing points don't always work the best for all people and that you have to experiment like was already said. I do like to use the indicator though to know exactly where you are and where you were for comparison though. On my current 1.6 T/D with an N/A pump on it temporarily and fresh Giles rebuilt 155 bar injectors I had to go way past 1.0 m/m for it to run it's best and at 1.17 m/m it's fine and could probably go higher. Almost 9,000 on it now, 46 mpg. and runs cool and is easy to start and doesn't rattle at all, obviously it isn't hurting anything set where it is. I think a lot of this has to do with the actual opening pressure of the injectors which is unknown to most of us without our own pop testor or other variables when we switch things around. Just experiment on the advance some more and I bet you'll notice a big difference but make sure you know exactly where it is. I guess when I put the T/D pump back on I'll have to go through it all again
Like we were saying a while back, "what's good for the goose isn't necessarily good for the gander", and I still don't know what a gander even is
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#11
by
myke_w
on 20 Sep, 2009 18:57
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"what's good for the goose isn't necessarily good for the gander", and I still don't know what a gander even is
LOL!! thanks a bunch. I plan on playing with it tomorrow when I'm in the shop again.
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#12
by
Powered by Spearco
on 20 Sep, 2009 18:59
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I too, have the same engine setup. It sounds just as you had described and smokes when cold.
Even with a block heater its still ruff running. The timming was set to 1.07mm.
I thought I would just bump it up more and try that real quick and see if any differance. Yes, it did start up faster and seemed to smoke less. After that I checked the actual timming and it was at 1.19mm. Sure it could go more but it sounds so rattly. It runs great with plenty of power and smoke only when floored.
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#13
by
Smokey Eddy
on 23 Sep, 2009 00:53
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Hey Myke, i have the same build as you and have similar issues.
well, HAD some, still have a couple.
The rough starts went away once it broke in. I had to advance the fuel timing significantly.
The compression is down since we're using a bigger head so it will always run a little rough for the first 30 seconds or so.
mine idles perfectly even when cold. I'm sure that's just the break in. I'm burning a little blue but that's because of my turbo.
Let it break in a bit and keep that timing advanced.
OR you have different problems..
i never sent my pump away. and im using stock NEW nozzles. mine is noisy too until it warms up. Doesn't really bother me too much. It's not deafening. I can't hear it inside the house unless the garage door is open.
ps. im using a 1.6 cam.
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#14
by
Smokey Eddy
on 23 Sep, 2009 00:55
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OH and im using the correct thickness of HG. That made the BIGGEST difference ever. you have no idea...
a 1 notch for my protrusion.