I put the DIE in diesel /Run-a-way damage? - page 1 - IDI Engine - VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.

• I put the DIE in diesel /Run-a-way damage? by td_Jetta on 01 May, 2009 16:43
• Ok, I didn't post this until it was ten days in the past. I screwed up my daily driver in such a way I'm still embarrassed to share it with people who know how truly dumb I was, but here goes. I was heading home at 75-80 mph when I felt the power slack off and a faint fuel smell. After a look it was plain to see my #2 hard line had failed. fuel spirits all over. Stranded I started to think about a limp home strategy. I thought I was so F'in smart. I'll just bend the line a bit cut off the windshield wiper sprayer tubing and redirect that little spray some where. Oh ya, a 1/2 liter bottle in the trunk. I wedged it between the fender and the filter box. Can ya see it happening now? With that I drove off. On my way up a hill the bottle tipped and spilled right in the air box intake. After hearing some strange noises I pulled off the road to check it out. I pushed in on the clutch and away it went. I was so panicked I tried to shut it down with the key and failed to just let the clutch back out. 2-5 seconds of very high revs (what a cool sound!) and poof my great running low mileage td go-cart it dead. There was a carbon trail spit down on the road for 50 feet marking the rev out
  What a dumb ass! I share this so that someone else will know to let the clutch out if they're ever in the same kind of situation. I know it's not likely but it is worth the mental drill to be ready. It could save you your diesel.
  
  So now for the questions after I spilled my guts out for you all.
  
  What is the most likely damage? It still turns over and there are no holes in the block or pan. Did I just jump a tooth on the timing and bend the valves? I don't hear any tapping when it turns over. I guess that doesn't mean much. Did I kill the pump? A hole in a piston? Thoughts Please. Save the insults. I have already had my once huge mechanical ego crushed. -Temo     :oops:   :lol:
• #1 by Rabbit TD on 01 May, 2009 17:44
• I'me having the crushed ego problem myself with this new engine which started out so great.  I would start with a compression test first, you might have lucked out and not hurt anything but I didn't hear it.
       You probably couldn't have gotten that bottle to do that trick spill if you tried to, probably been just as far ahead to have just stuck the hose in the intake to begin with if it was gonna do that, that's a shame.
• #2 by subsonic on 01 May, 2009 17:45
• Is there oil dumping anywhere? Holes in anything?  Can you turn it over by hand with out any binding or contact?  If you pull the valve cover, what does the valve train look like?  Any messed up looking lifters?  At that sort of rpm you probably had some sort of valve float. Ie piston valve contact.  I am sure others will chime in.  There are probably some posts on "run away" that talk about it more in depth.
• #3 by jtanguay on 01 May, 2009 18:01
• well you might get lucky... with the stock intake the way it is if the engine was inhaling fuel mist, hopefully it was all fully burnt.  however if fuel droplets were being injested, and hitting the metallic surfaces, then that could burn it.
• #4 by subsonic on 01 May, 2009 18:28
• Might be head pull'n time.
• #5 by Dakotakid on 01 May, 2009 19:33
• I also vote to go ahead and pull the head and just see for yourself. Also, in the future when you check the pump timing, and make adjustment of the timing (i.e. rotating the pump), make sure you loosen the 4 fuel lines at the pump.
  
  Why? Because my experience has demonstrated (I feel I see a correlation) between failed fuel lines and not loosening the nuts during pump adjustments. You, ultimately, end up putting a bind on the line which can eventually lead to a crack. As I recall, it is most often the #2 line which goes this way.
  
  The last time I had to dump a clutch to stop one of these it broke 3 of the 4 springs on the clutch plate......seems like nothing is for free these days.
• #6 by subsonic on 01 May, 2009 20:37
• If he wanged some valves, will the compression test be accurate?
  
  
  Never mind :oops:
• #7 by jtanguay on 01 May, 2009 21:47
• Quote from: "libbybapa"

  I think the #1 cause of fuel line breakage is the absence of any of the three anti-vibration clips.
  
  I'd think #2 was from adjusting the pump without loosening the fittings after.
  
  WRT the runaway, I'd be inclined to do a compression test before pulling it apart.  Most likely all four glow plug tips are gone.  
  
  Andrew

  
  
  do the glow plugs really get eaten from a runaway?  i thought it was only from bad injector spray pattern...  either way i agree that a compression test is in order, and a quick check to make sure cam timing is in line with TDC before pulling the head.  theres a high possibility of some fried rings and valves from the excess EGT's, but hopefully everything is alright.
• #8 by td_Jetta on 01 May, 2009 22:15
• Thanks for the thoughts guys. I'll check the lifters (solid) for movement first. I'll pull the glows next. Then retime and compression test if that all looks good.
  The strange thing about the #2 hard line failure is it was brand new(200 or so miles). I know to loosen the lines before timing. Timing was done pre new lines. Yes the clamps were on and tight. When I fit the new lines they had to be bent a little to get them to connect up. I didn't bend them so they lined right up without having to muscle them in to place to start the nut. I think this was my mistake. The lines had to be stressed into place to connect instead of lining right up. I've been told you don't want to bend the lines at all. I don't know how I'd line them up with no stress on them with out some bending for the first fitments. I Just bought a rebuilt 1.6td. $600 built by a muni (San Frans local bus outfit)30 year vet mechanic. It has a fresh clean head on it. I pulled the pan and it all looks new and well done. The run a way won't get yanked until I know what has failed. I'll post up the results when I investigate. Thanks again.
• #9 by RabbitJockey on 02 May, 2009 13:02
• Quote from: "libbybapa"

  Yup, glow plugs are almost always just little nubs after a runaway.  Usually that's the reason it won't start afterward.  I would still want to check the belt timing and do a compression check.

   yep mine used to burn through them a good bit until it finally had a big run away  after that i solved all my breather issues and it never happened again.
  
  
  when my rabbit ran away all that went wrong was the head gasket blew and the cylinders filled with oil, not damage to the rods or head, all i had to do was replace the head gasket(i reringed while i was at it) and replace an o ring on my block heater, and the car was good to go.
• #10 by Smokey Eddy on 02 May, 2009 22:41
• My bet is you just murdered the glow plugs.
  Run aways are almost garenteed to kill the glow plugs.
  And possibly a head gasket. I'd change the head gasket and check all the glow plugs. any other damage will be obvious by that point...
• #11 by CdnVWJunkie on 03 May, 2009 05:43
• I'm not sure what quantity of fuel we're talking about here but with fuel pouring into the intake manifold I'd be worried about hydrolocking damage.
• #12 by jtanguay on 03 May, 2009 08:08
• but this runaway isn't like a normal runaway... a normal runaway sends unfiltered oil streaming into the intake (or shooting past the rings into the cylinders), whereas the OP's situation sent fuel through the air filter (probably helping it atomize a little).  
  
  my thoughts are that it would be like running some quickstart through the intake before the filter.  without the glow plugs energized, it should be fine, right?  or am i wrong?
  
  and just to get things straight, the vehicle is a vanagon, right?  does the intake system run downhill, meaning that anything poured into intake boot leak right into the engine?  i wouldn't think that VW engineers would allow that, or the engine might ingest a face full of water if there was a leak, or a big enough puddle.
• #13 by Smokey Eddy on 03 May, 2009 13:36
• I thought GP's were sensitive to run aways just because of the WOT conditions... putting down power, be it oil or diesel fed, will make a ton of heat.
  
  When i had my run aways with my old head (cracks between valves) it wasn't blue like oil fed... it was a huge cloud of white. I suppose i should make a new thread about that? Was my run away oil fed? I thought it was having excessive water injection because my coolant would go down significantly and the cubic kilometer behind me would be a man, ahem jetta, made cloud of water vapour...
  
  Regardless, this killed at least three of my glow plugs. And wouldn't start afterwards. Aswell, the 1 time i was dumb enough to over heat the engine that also killed the glow plugs.
• #14 by jtanguay on 03 May, 2009 16:46
• ah i re-read and he said that he found the bottle from the trunk... i misinterpreted that the bottle was placed in the trunk (near the engine, if it was a vanagon).
  
  so hopefully we can see pics of the damage, because i'd like to see some dead glow plugs.