-
#15
by
Garrett
on 17 Jan, 2009 17:23
-
I've never heard that. Why would there be any force if the motor and transmission were basically disconnected ? doesn't make sense to me.
It makes perfect sense... if you're starting the car with the clutch in you're loading the crank laterally!
-
#16
by
zyewdall
on 17 Jan, 2009 18:01
-
I've never really tried starting the rabbit in anything less than about 25F. The mitsubishi will start down to about 15F or 20F, but lower than that, it wants the block heater plugged in at least an hour or two before trying. If I plug the block heater in overnight, it'll start right up at -5F with a very short glowplug cycle (like a hot summer day). I run full synthetic in all my vehicles. I have a 1000CCA battery in the rabbit, and two 1000CCA batteries in the mitsubishi.
I also usually start them with the clutch depressed if it's cold (mine are all old ones that will start in gear if you want...). It's quite noticeable the drag the cold oil in the transmission puts on there otherwise... my gas pickup truck will actually lurch forward, in nuetral, when I let the clutch out after starting it, when I start it in 0F temps -- the gears are behaving like a torque converter, even in neutral, I guess. I need to switch the transmission fluid to synthetic too...
Z
-
#17
by
Rabbit TD
on 17 Jan, 2009 18:28
-
I've never really tried starting the rabbit in anything less than about 25F. The mitsubishi will start down to about 15F or 20F, but lower than that, it wants the block heater plugged in at least an hour or two before trying. If I plug the block heater in overnight, it'll start right up at -5F with a very short glowplug cycle (like a hot summer day). I run full synthetic in all my vehicles. I have a 1000CCA battery in the rabbit, and two 1000CCA batteries in the mitsubishi.
I also usually start them with the clutch depressed if it's cold (mine are all old ones that will start in gear if you want...). It's quite noticeable the drag the cold oil in the transmission puts on there otherwise... my gas pickup truck will actually lurch forward, in nuetral, when I let the clutch out after starting it, when I start it in 0F temps -- the gears are behaving like a torque converter, even in neutral, I guess. I need to switch the transmission fluid to synthetic too...
I remember back in the 70's this one place I worked at we had a old early 60's era International semi tractor that we used in the yard to move the flatbeds and vans around with and had a 5 speed manual trans with a 2 speed rearend. One morning it was just about 0 and after we finaly did get it started {which as a gas engine by the way] we couldn't let the clutch out in neutral for at least 5 minuets without stalling the engine even giving it some gas. God kows what kind of gear oil it must have had in it :lol:
Z
-
#18
by
Rabbit TD
on 17 Jan, 2009 18:43
-
A nice synthetic oil will go a long ways to reducing wear as well. I tested some 5w-50 synthetic vs conventional 15w-40 in my deep freeze. After sitting overnight the synthetic still sloshed around about the same as it did at room temperature. The conventional oil took about 2 seconds before it even started pouring out of the jug. :shock:
I think the concern about starting with the clutch pushed in has nothing to do with the bearings in the transmission. It apparently will wear the thrust bearings much quicker. You have the full axial force acting on them with no lubricating oil. I'm not sure how much difference this is going to make though. :?
I've been thinking about synthetic oil as well for my new engine, mainly for turbo protection on a 1.6 T/D I just built. I'm at least going to run it 1500-2000 miles though on the Shell 15-40 though to break it in better. Th only thing I'm kind of worried about though is these engines seem to burn oil even if they are in perfect condition and with the synthetic actualy being thinner it will probbly use more and the stuff is't cheap to begin with. I use Mobil-1 in my Buick and I think it's around $7 a quart now. How do some of you all do with using it as far as buning more than the dino-type :?:
-
#19
by
Rabbit TD
on 17 Jan, 2009 19:50
-
It is above freezing here right now but that is very uncommon for January.
I often run the old Jetta 30 to 40 below zero with no problems. The fuel is all #1 here this time of year, for the most part you do not have a choice on the fuel grade you can buy in the winter. If it is going to be very cold for a few weeks I will add power service fuel conditioner. I have never had any fuel gelling problems.
The car starts easily down to about 15f. Most of the time I use the block heater if the temperature gets much below freezing. It always starts easily with the block heater even in the most extreme temperatures.
I use the same 15/40 oil all year round in the current engine, but it has alot of miles on it. The new engine will probably get a full synthetic engine oil which is far less susceptible to thickening in the very cold weather.
The last trick is a large battery in good condition. I have a 1000CCA battery.
I also have a diesel pickup which reacts a little worse to the cold weather. The best remedy for it so far has been the combined use of the block heater and an aftermarket oil pan heater.
If I wasn't so damn lazy I would go out now and see if the Rabbit would start just out of curiosity, it's right around 0, I'll try him in the morning though 
Well it's now tomorrow morning and it was right about 10 degrees and it did start and keep going { with the clutch in} after abou 6 tries. I don't have a block heater in this engine. I guess that's the coldest I ever started one of these things.
-
#20
by
Clintwalker85
on 17 Jan, 2009 23:14
-
my 94 1.9 td starts no problem -40C yesterday morning plugged in it has 250.xxxkms on it i run 10-30 semi syn oil mobile 1 i add diesel+ conditioner with cetane boost every tank.
-
#21
by
Jasonsmack
on 17 Jan, 2009 23:16
-
Mine will start at about -25c. I hate to do it as I am sure I am not helping anything survive longer. If I leave the advance alone (not advanced) and floor the throttle it will take off after several seconds of cranking. I then apply the advance to promote quicker warm up time.
I always apply the clutch pedal when I start the car, all I have ever replaced that is related to the clutch is the disc itself. At 600,000+ km I do not have any ill effects from starting with the clutch pedal depressed.
-
#22
by
Clintwalker85
on 17 Jan, 2009 23:25
-
mine starts instantly with the advance on..maby my motor is really healthy?
-
#23
by
Jasonsmack
on 18 Jan, 2009 00:57
-
Mine is tired, I used to have better luck with starting using the advance but it does not work that way anymore. I might be able to remedy the issue with a new timing belt and injection pump timing reset but I am not going to bother. It has 600,000kms on it and is getting an AAZ built for it right now. Hopefully it will start up for a few months yet, then the fresh AAZ will cure 95% of the problems and wear that the car has right now.
-
#24
by
veedubcanuck
on 18 Jan, 2009 11:42
-
As for the clutch issue... It's NOT going to wear out the bearing fast enough that you will ever notice. MOST new cars you HAVE to push the pedal to start (interlock), and there hasn't been any changes in the bearing technologies used. Besides, it always safer to make sure you push the clutch b/c there could be that one time you have it in gear and did not notice. As for any wear to the crank.... no way, there is not enough thrust applied from the clutch to ever do anything. Even in the owners manual it tells you to push the clutch in when starting.
-
#25
by
jtanguay
on 18 Jan, 2009 12:26
-
check here for the thrust bearing issue (scroll down a bit... unfortunately no pics). i suppose its worse with the one piece bearing, but still... loading it at a time when there is no oil pressure can't be good.
-
#26
by
veedubcanuck
on 18 Jan, 2009 13:07
-
Somehow I think there are other factors at play with that failed thrust bearing. There are Way to many people that do push the pedal and have never had an issue versus the ones that have. It's just not logical.
-
#27
by
dieselweasel
on 18 Jan, 2009 14:42
-
check here for the thrust bearing issue (scroll down a bit... unfortunately no pics). i suppose its worse with the one piece bearing, but still... loading it at a time when there is no oil pressure can't be good.
When the engine is running there is no oil pressure applied directly to the thrust bearings anyway...just the oil that squirts out from the main bearing in between the thrusts. When you shut off an engine it's not like every drop of oil flows into the pan. There is still a coating of oil on all the bearings. Having the clutch engaged or disengaged can mean the difference between starting or not.
Check this out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIsG_8TVokw
-
#28
by
jtanguay
on 18 Jan, 2009 14:55
-
well continue to do it your way and i'll continue to do it mine. just thought i'd pass the info on.
-
#29
by
fatmobile
on 18 Jan, 2009 21:13
-
I always leave it out of gear and without pushing the clutch, in warm weather.
The trany fluid drags too hard on the starter in cold weather so I push the clutch in.
I think it's especially important not to shove the crank into the thrust bearings, with little oil applied, if someone is running a stronger pressure plate.