Snag in timing belt / water pump job - page 1 - IDI Engine - VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.

• Snag in timing belt / water pump job by wolfsburged on 30 Nov, 2008 18:48
• Well the timing belt/water pump job is continuing to be a PITA.
  
  Got the engine to TDC, locked the cam in place, locked the Injection Pump in place, pulled the timing belt off, removed the main shaft accessory belt pulley and intermediate shaft pulley, got all of the water pump housing bolts off EXCEPT the last freaking one, right behind where the intermediate shaft pulley should sit, freaking BROKE.
  
  
  
  So I was able to remove the old water pump, but now there is a broken stud of a bolt in there, about 3.5" inches from the frame rail there, with no reasonable way to get a drill or something in there to drill it out.
  
  
  
  
  Now the reasonable solution here would be to just pull that water pump housing off.
  
  I haven't done that because I could not get the AC compressor bracket off. The reason I could not get the AC compressor bracket off is because the last bolt is up and under the Injection Pump and short of being David Copperfield its not coming out unless the IP comes off.
  
  
  
  I hate you AC!!
  
  Now the IP is timed at least pretty close to right - it ran! I don't REALLY want to touch it, but it looks like I may have to pull it.
  
  Also while down there noticed an oil leak around the intermediate shaft seal - cheap and relatively easy fix while I'm down in here.
  
  Also noticed that I could not get the old timing belt tensioner off...
  
  
  
  So close but no good!
  
  I even had the floor jack under the engine and jacked the thing up until the mount was maxed out on travel and bringing the car up with the engine...
  
  Which leads to the next issue - that passenger motor mount is shot... PITA to replace, but hey... I'm already having a huge pain in the butt, so whats a little extra between friends??
  
  Now what about that motor mount - its bolted onto a huge bracket which ends up... Oh yes! Its attached to the Injection Pump bracket!
  
  So in summary:
  It's always the last, most difficult to fix bolt that will break
  Why the hell does the Injection Pump have to be in the way of everything??
  
  
  Should I just pull the IP, hope that I don't screw up timing, pull the water pump housing & fix it, pull the motor mount and replace, replace the intermediate shaft seal, and replace everything...
  
  OR
  
  Should I try to drop both the side and front motor mounts, try to angle the motor down enough to get a drill into that bolt, hope I don't screw up removing the broken bolt, hope I don't crack something on the exhaust side, and ignore the mount and be on my happy, correctly timed way?
• #1 by Smokey Eddy on 30 Nov, 2008 19:40
• I'd try struggling to get that stud out a little more before taking off the housing... spray some mechanic in a can (wd40) on it periodically, like evey thirty minutes. Make sure the first spray was like 2-3+ hours ago and then put vice grips on it and try that. You want the vice grips to be insanely tight on there. as in use a clamp to shut the grips or something similar.  IF that doesn't work, with a hack saw, cut a slit in the stud as deep as you can 1/4 inch is good. And use a very thin screw driver to turn it out. both of these methods together, or one after another, has worked for me. Try vice grips then cut and screw driver.
  when turning the driver you have to push as well as hard as you can.
  
  ALSO before doing this, or inbetween wd40 applications wack it with a hammer to try and budge it free.
• #2 by wolfsburged on 30 Nov, 2008 19:48
• I gave it a few hits with PB Blaster interspersed with some Vice Grip action... It's hard to see in the picture but it is less than 1mm sticking out so there is barely anything to grab onto...
• #3 by Quantum TD on 30 Nov, 2008 20:14
• Couple of tips:
  
  1) In order to get the tensioner off, you have to jack on the engine pan until the car just begins to lift up off the suspension. Then, spin the eccentric hole to the BOTTOM of its movement, and then kneel on the fender/bumper, and swivel the tensioner out.
  
  2) I wouldn't replace the pass side mount unless you get some serious vibration in the dash. Replacing the mount is a real Cee U Next Tuesday. Chances are, it's still passable.
  
  3) If you have AC, the only way you'll get the bracket off is if you remove the IP. No way around it.
  
  4) You can remove the IP, the AC bracket and leave the motor-mount bracket in place. They're all separate entities.
  
  5) Hindsight is 20/20, but I generally buy the whole waterpump assy. when I do the job. This is mainly due to the fac that it usually takes me as long to clean the damn housing, as it would to just pull everything, and start from scratch. That, and I usually have to replace the housing-to-block O-ring, as most of these old cars have leaking Injection pumps, which leak straight onto the O-ring, and cause coolant leaks down the road.
  
        If it were me, I'd pull the IP, and the AC bracket. If you're worried about re-timing the pump (i.e. you don't have a dial gauge and adapter), just scribe some accurate marks on the housing of the pump, and on the motor mount bracket. It should get you close enough. Then, carefully drill out the center of the bolt (it should be really soft metal), and use and EZ out to extract the rest of the bolt. Just a tip here: it may actually be cheaper to buy the housing than to bother with the EZ out and drilling, so check your local parts store before you commit to fixing it yourself.
  
  6) Worse case scenario: I'd put a nice thin (NOT generous) film of silicone sealant on both mating surfaces of the paper water-pump gasket, put it in place, and leave out the missing bolt. I do the silicone trick on all older cars, as the mating surfaces of any used housing is sure to be porous from corrosion. Buy new bolts for the housing too. You do NOT want to goop the crap out of it, as it will clog up the radiator/heater core.
  
  let us know how it goes.
  
  P.S. Change that intermediate shaft seal!!!
• #4 by 79rabbit4dr on 30 Nov, 2008 21:49
• That sucks man, glad I don't have AC. I tried to pull just the front off my water pump also (with that one stupid bolts stopping me) until I realized I should be pulling the whole thing, again, glad I don't have AC.
  
  I vote for pulling IP/AC/WP.
  
  I too had a heck of a time getting the tensioner off and had to basically lift the motor with one hand and yank the tensioner out with the other. Getting the new one in was ever worse... but I agree w/ quantum and leave the motor mount, at least until you can/want to replace them all at once.
  
  oh, and get a timing set. it's worth it and actually pretty easy once you've done it once or twelve times  :wink:
• #5 by arb on 01 Dec, 2008 07:24
• I would do plan "A" - pull the IP and then the housing to fix it, replacing the "O" ring. Like Quantum TD said, the "O" rings tend to leak anyway.
  
  On the snapped bolt, I think drilling it and using an easy out is your only hope... after you drill it, HEAT it with a propane torch.  - 20/20 - if you would have heated it first time around, it likely would not have snapped. But, that's how it goes.
• #6 by jtanguay on 01 Dec, 2008 10:15
• so you're going to put some anti seize on the water pump bolts when you install it right???  :wink:   and maybe some other bolts too while your at it.
  
  just remember that you dont need to torque the bolts down as much with the anti seize on it, as there will be less friction.. or you might strip the soft aluminum.
• #7 by zukgod1 on 01 Dec, 2008 10:17
• Anti seize = good in this case for sure.
• #8 by wolfsburged on 01 Dec, 2008 13:18
• Is it possible to remove the whole IP and IP bracket as an assembly so that I don't have to take the sprocket off and mess up my perfectly locked & timed pump? Or am I just wishfully thinking?
  
  I think I'm going to just deal with it and do it right... Like they always say, if you are going to do it, you might as well do it right.
  
  Won't be able to put much time in on this until January though.. Busy busy busy. Until then time to collect parts!
• #9 by madmedix on 01 Dec, 2008 13:45
• Ah yes. The stubborn piece that won't move, seemingly installed by some dude with at least 8 knuckles per finger to get parts into those oh-so-tight spaces.
  One of my brake lines suffered a spiral fracture yesterday (again), and had to use my handy female easy-outs to remove it on the nuts on the M/C...there is a lovely assortment of these now at Sears, and probably one small enough to grab that stud. Then you'll be able to use serious leverage to spin that puppy free:
  
  [/img]
  
  Cheers,
  Andy
• #10 by Green79 on 01 Dec, 2008 18:41
• I was able to remove my IP while it was still attached the its main bracket, therefore not changing the timing. But I don't have AC... and it did take some creative finagling with various wrenches to get to the bolts behind the IP. In this case, it would be a lot easier to simply scribe marks or get a paint pen and make marks across the mating surfaces of the IP and the bracket... you should be able to get the pump back on exactly where it was with that method.
• #11 by jtanguay on 02 Dec, 2008 06:53
• i would just say to get the timing tools and re-do the timing.  time is money, and the tools aren't too expensive...  and you'll save a lot of time!
• #12 by Green79 on 02 Dec, 2008 07:29
• Andrew- what sort of belt tracking issues can be encountered after removing/replacing the IP bracket(s)? My timing belt always runs towards the front of the IP pulley, and I'd be more comfortable if it tracked right down the middle. Is there any way to address this type of issue through bracket adjustments (other than slipping in spacers somewhere to change the angles)?
• #13 by zukgod1 on 02 Dec, 2008 07:40
• There was a service bulletin on that. I have it printed but don't remember where the heck I got it now.
  
  However, more often than not the belt riding on the outside of the IP pulley means the bushing in the IP are worn allowing the shaft to move off axis.
• #14 by zukgod1 on 02 Dec, 2008 07:55
• I found it. Had to convert from PDF though.
  
  It says for the 1.9 AAZ but it works for the 1.6 as well.
  
  
  If you want the file PM me and I'll send.