Compressor diesel? more power from diesel - page 1 - IDI Engine - VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.
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Compressor diesel? more power from diesel by Benjamin on 14 Mar, 2008 14:29
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guys, i have a small idea,
i think the main problem with making big power is not feuling, but getting that big turbo spooled up... (exept if you pay big money for ballbearing hybrid turbos) diesels cant make so great power gains like gasoline engines do, and feul is a restriction, becouse off the pump, but we havent seen a 12mm feuled out with IDI, and we still have the 14mm, but it also have limits becouse you do need to inject it fast enough and it need to burn fast enough also, but i dont think we have seen the limits!
i think there are several thoughts about building a G40-G60 on a diesel with many pro and contra's...
i have the idea to build a compressor, as you know there are several compressor.
roots
dont know the name in english...
G-compressor or Scroll compressor
Comprex wich is a nice system, but simply not good cause you dont have high power outputs in no any way, and its also pretty complex
and than, you have the centrifugal compressor, for those who dont know, the centrigugal compressor is the intake from a turbo, and the shaft is (mainly) connected to the engine.
those compressors make about 40.000rpm
the good and bad thing about this one is, its very small and very efficient, but this type is rather for cars with peak power and just a little torque, this is thee reason why you dont find them on normal cars.
Now i was thinking about taking a pretty big turbo, take the turbine off, and build a centrifugal compressor myself. but this time not pushed by the engine, but with an electrical engine or so!
Anyone have an idea or so, what kind of power need the electric engine be, how to make fast rpm trough reductions, what about the bearings, or is it better to push the compressor with another engine than electric, i dont know if its possible, but can a turbine from the turbo be turned on when you add feul to it, some kind of JET system, only you dont use the compressor, just a thought.
Greetz, Benjamin -
#1 by RabbitJockey on 14 Mar, 2008 14:32
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theres actually a guy that did exactly that, he sells a kit too
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#2 by Benjamin on 14 Mar, 2008 14:47
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Quote from: "Trev0rbr"
theres actually a guy that did exactly that, he sells a kit too
With a centrifugal, what kind of power gains did he make? He did it on diesel?
Greetz, Benjamin -
#3 by RabbitJockey on 14 Mar, 2008 14:54
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he did it on a beetle, there was a post in this forum a little while ago for it. pretty neat but it was only good for short bursts of power, and the powergain was relatively weak imo.
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#4 by Benjamin on 14 Mar, 2008 15:11
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link to forum
http://vwdiesel.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=10210&highlight=electric+turbo
link to example
http://www.turbomagazine.com/tech/0406tur_knight_turbo_electric_supercharger/index.html
i dont know if this is centrifugal compressor, its my understang its not, probably becouse this one makes 4x less rpm
Greetz, Benjamin
/edit:
T: When did you develop the idea of using three motors?
TK: About 10 years ago I developed a program to determine the horsepower requirements for electric compressors. It was a very difficult program and it took me a long time to get the parameters correct. I found that flowing 780cfm at 15 psi required 80 to 100 hp. I went smaller on engine size and lowered boost requirements until I reached 450cfm at 8 psi, which required 18 to 22 hp, so I looked for a 20-hp dc motor. All I found were 50-plus-pound motors, which were too large to use in my intended application. Three years ago I realized if I used multiple motors, I could get to the 20-hp mark.
T: Why a Roots-type supercharger?
TK: I designed many different models and applied for the patents. I also have patents pending on screw, roots, centrifugal and sliding vane-type electric superchargers. The centrifugal design is in the works, and the screw is simply too expensive to use. The sliding vane is great but quite large, so the Roots is cost effective, reliable, simple, durable, and provides the quickest boost response. -
#5 by blkboostedtruck on 14 Mar, 2008 15:29
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I had started this thread a while back! i still would love to see it put together
http://vwdiesel.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=8398&highlight=feeler+thoughts+g60+supercarger+diesel[url]I balieve a supercharger would create a lot of low end power that a diesel engine is lacking with a turbo! twin forced induction units could be employed with this configeration? I have just about every thing to do the project! but no time because of all the overtime i'm working at work!Duanehttp://vwdiesel.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=8398&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=feeler+thoughts+g60+supercarger+diesel[url] -
#6 by Benjamin on 14 Mar, 2008 15:45
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so, any other idea's to make the turbine flow, without taking power from the engine like exhaust gasses, mechanical on a belt, or electrical wich is also mechical becouse of your alternator.
Need a 5th injector and a sparkplug to make that turbine spooling, or what?
Greetz, Benjamin -
#7 by KTZed on 14 Mar, 2008 17:50
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Have a second alternator and battery dedicated to the electric supercharger. Have the alt run off of a magnetic clutch pully from an AC compressor so that when full throttle is applied the clutch is disengaged so as to not drain power from the engine when you need it most.
You could wire it so that during normal driving the alt would be engaged, charging the battery and have the gas peddle wired as a potentiometer to controll the speed of the supercharger.
Yes I have put some thought into this in the past :roll:
PS. Speaking of twincharged engines...
HKS once made a turbo kit for the superchaged Toyota MR2 and VW now makes a TSI 1.4L twincharged gas engine.
Many old Detroit 2 cycle diesels are supercharged and twin turbo. -
#8 by shegel on 14 Mar, 2008 18:16
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here is a link to a topic i started involving a twin charged mercedes diesel.
http://vwdiesel.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=11908&highlight=mercedes -
#9 by blkboostedtruck on 14 Mar, 2008 19:50
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#10 by Black Smokin' Diesel on 14 Mar, 2008 20:45
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That's why they developped VNT turbos.
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#11 by GTD. on 14 Mar, 2008 23:25
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Quote from: "Benjamin"
dont know the name in english...
Twin Screw compressor, the new air compressor at work is that type
Always wondered about bolting an Atlas Coppo screw compressor to an engine from a pneumatic drill/jack hammer compressor
in fact why fit a turbo or supercharger when you can just tow one of these behind you :roll:
its a bolt on towable twin screw supercharger :wink: -
#12 by burnt_servo on 15 Mar, 2008 04:31
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wouldn't it be easier to use a set of compund turbo's ?
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#13 by haybayian on 15 Mar, 2008 05:15
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Quote from: Benjamin
guys, i have a small idea,
i think the main problem with making big power is not feuling, but getting that big turbo spooled up...
Interesting subject B
My own crazy idea is that the design of combustion engines including diesel IC needs to be revisited from the ground up. When we look at performance we do not differentiate between "continuous duty" and "discontinuous on demand type of duty" the way most machinery is normally rated in the industrial sector.
On cars I see a need for cruising and a need for passing (or impressing). The latter is rarely ful time and the engine does not need to be designed for it.
In other words we should make engines capable of storing energy and this I think can be done either in the form of DC electricity fed supercharger, or by storing high pressure air to be injected in a diesel intake without turbo or supercharger.
This is what I am looking at. An air compressor with a magnetic clutch ran by the alternator belt, a high pressure air tank, a throttle link type of control, some sort of a cooler and a hose to the intake manif.
Here is my supercharger...please don't laugh.
Haybayian -
#14 by theman53 on 15 Mar, 2008 06:41
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My thinking is that any engine uses about 1/3 of the energy it makes to power the car, 1/3 is wasted in aerodynamics and the other 1/3 is lost in exhaust heat. Why not use the 1/3 of the exhaust heat to power a fan *turbo* and use a little of that wasted heat...your making it anyway.