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Bottom end rebuild...
by
MaxHedrm
on 16 Jan, 2008 20:31
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So, I'm looking at having the ring job done in my '82 Jetta. Does anyone have any idea what a reasonable # of billable hours would be to pull it, refurb the bottom end & put it back together?
Thanks!
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#1
by
MaxHedrm
on 17 Jan, 2008 22:54
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So far they quote I have is for 21 hours. Plus another 4 for the removal & replacement of the timing belt. That seems odd to me to do that separately & seems a bit high in general. This would include the honing.
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#2
by
vanagonturbo
on 17 Jan, 2008 23:18
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WAAAAYYYY too high. They can rering the engine with it in the car. 21 hours sounds like a removal of the engine to rering it. Not necessary. find a new shop. I think we charge around 8 hours to take the head off, clean everything, rering it and put it back together. 4 extra hours to put the timing belt on is rediculous. 25 hours to rering an engine and replace the timing belt is astronomical. I could understand maybe an extra hour for the timing belt but thats it. If you need more info, I can give you the labor guide time from AllData tomorrow.
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#3
by
burn_your_money
on 18 Jan, 2008 00:16
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It depends what all you want done to the bottom end and what shape it's in. If you need machining well...
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#4
by
Baselyne
on 18 Jan, 2008 00:26
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WHAT'S THE BEST WAY TO GO ABOUT THIS WITHOUT HAVING A SHOP TOUCH IT UP FOR YOU...
SAY ALL YOU WANTED TO DO WAS REMOVE THE CARBON TRACES OR KINDA CARBON BUILD-UP AT THE TOP OV THE CILINDER WALL
ANY SOLVENTS OR?
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#5
by
myke_w
on 18 Jan, 2008 08:32
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It really depends on the amount of wear that is in the cylinder.
If the motor was using oil before you took it apart, and you are trying to correct that.. good luck, it's too late and re ringing is really only a short term fix (maybe lasts 10-20k miles). In that situation, you are best off boring it. At that point you might as well do intermediate shaft bearings too, because they are usually worn in a motor whose bore is worn. Int shaft bearing wear is a very common source of low oil pressure in these motors.
Now, if you took it apart and it was running well, making good compression and not burning oil, you may be able to get away with a re ring.
The best (first) thing to do is have the bore miked, and find the widest point in the worst bore and check that against the wear spec in the Bentley. You can't know what you are dealing with until you have numbers from the bore. Once you have that information, we can talk about what you need to do.
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#6
by
MaxHedrm
on 18 Jan, 2008 14:59
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WAAAAYYYY too high. They can rering the engine with it in the car. 21 hours sounds like a removal of the engine to rering it. Not necessary. find a new shop. I think we charge around 8 hours to take the head off, clean everything, rering it and put it back together. 4 extra hours to put the timing belt on is rediculous. 25 hours to rering an engine and replace the timing belt is astronomical. I could understand maybe an extra hour for the timing belt but thats it. If you need more info, I can give you the labor guide time from AllData tomorrow.
That would be great. I tried to ask some other local shops, but no one will say anything without looking at it of course. & I didn't figure it would go over well if I just told them I was just wondering if one of their competitors is screwing me.
Since they are honing it when they do the rings, I figured they would have to pull the engine.
FYI, this is to fix bad compression. I'm hoping the rings are enough. :?
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#7
by
Vincent Waldon
on 18 Jan, 2008 16:21
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Hmmm... before you invest all that money on a ring job to fix poor compression you might want to invest in a leakdown test... it will help pinpoint where you are losing compression from.
Shame to rebuild the bottom and then discover you still have a problem because it was leaky valves all along.
Or, just do it right, budget permitting of course, and do the head while it's off to do the rings. ;-)
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#8
by
jtanguay
on 18 Jan, 2008 18:09
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i'm wondering if going total seal on a worn engine would restore lost compression.. afterall new rings on a worn engine will still have the same end gap which is one of the main causes for lost compression, but the total seal rings would block that end gap or about 95% of it resulting in restored compression. now just need a guinea pig to test this theory out :lol:
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#9
by
jimfoo
on 18 Jan, 2008 22:35
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Hell, I didn't feel much power loss on my engine with Total Seals until the piston broke. And my #3 gapless ring was almost paper thin, though I did have loads of blowby by then.
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#10
by
Baselyne
on 18 Jan, 2008 22:39
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are you stating that due to the lack of compression loss you worked the other engine internals harder>?
Were those rings garbage afterwards or did you get lucky and just get some new pistons?
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#11
by
jimfoo
on 18 Jan, 2008 22:57
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are you stating that due to the lack of compression loss you worked the other engine internals harder>?
Were those rings garbage afterwards or did you get lucky and just get some new pistons?
Rings were worn enough, only 1 bad piston, but the block was so worn it had to be bored out. Head was trashed. That's why it wasn't really much more for me to turn it into a TDI than just rebuild it as an AAZ.
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#12
by
MaxHedrm
on 18 Jan, 2008 23:56
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Or, just do it right, budget permitting of course, and do the head while it's off to do the rings. ;-)
That's where I'm leaning right now actually. Possibly going to park it at my Dad's & do a full rebuild. Maybe I should use the money saved in labor for a pump from Giles.
I still want to know what this
should cost though. Just so I know how honest this shop is.