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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: Darth Garry on May 29, 2009, 06:40:09 am
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Ran into a major clearance issue last night on my Caddy, radiator is too close to oil filter to fit. Just goofing around, I put a 1.8L gas oil filter on and suprisingly it fit with enough clearance.
My question is, (please don't get angry with me!) - What are the major differences between the two filters? The filter that fits on my diesel is the same filter for Ford gasoline applications, are the filters really that much different?
The only things that I can wager is that the Diesel filter has more "capacity" i.e. it's bigger, probably more filtration surface area. If it's already used on gas and diesel applications, I wonder if the filtration size is the same?
Could I get away with this if I swap the filters more often, i.e. every 1500 miles? Or is it just playing with disaster and I should consider a remote relocation kit.
Any comments greatly appreciated.
Garry
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VW diesels do not use ford filters...
you might have a ford filter on your engine, but thats not correct.
trust me, ive had to deal with oil filters.
all my parts suppliers around here say it takes a SPECIFIC filter.
and the funny thing is, that the only calling for this particular filter, is only for VW diesel applications.
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I was wondering the same thing. I noticed that the my mother inlaws new ford flex has the same filter as my aaz. even threads on there.
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the vw gasoline engines switched over to the diesel oil filter a while back. due to the added capacity and superior filtering... so its more like diesel oil filter on a gasoline engine :D
only use a MANN or Bosch filter although i think there are a few other brands that are acceptable. i've tried the amsoil Ea filter and it was good. they say it filters to 15 microns, but who knows.
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Wix is one of the other acceptable filters, you can get them @ NAPA. A lot of companies are re spec'ing filters to run both D and gas to cut overhead. IMO the risk you run with a smaller filter is more changes, as long as the filter element has the same filtration spec as the OEM part.
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just to add to this thread... for gods sake do NOT run a FRAM oil filter!!! :o
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I tried to get a oil filter one time and napa was out of 'em so I got a gasser eurovan 5 cyl filter, threads were the same. The napa guy looked it up and found that the diesel filters down to 20 microns and the gasser one was 25 microns. Weird since the eurovan one is quite a bit longer.
Just for kicks, I was changing the filter on a cessna 170 145HP continental and found that my rabbit filters have the same threads and o-ring :o.
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Another option may be to call your local Baldwin dealer. I believe they are a great industrial filter and run them on everything I own, including VW diesels. For many applications they offer an oversize or 1 qt additional filter option. They can cross search and figure out working pressures, thread and pitch, filter media, by-pass or non by-pass, and designed working pressures. I agree, stock is best...but I dont think there is any reason you cant find a quality replacement to fit. Many Cat, John Deere, etc industrial engines run Baldwin filters. We run them exclusively at work on everything from 50HP up to 6,000HP. Hope this helps.
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I went the other way - a full synthetic filter made for extended diesel useage - Mobil-1 M1-301. My filter flange is also turned 35 degress or so, but that's another story.
One thing to keep in mind about using filters from other engines is the by-pass valve is usually mde in the filter. Different engines can have different pressure settings for the by-pass. It could be the gas filter could have a lower setting allowing all your oil to by-pass the filter early on. You have no indication if it is by-passing.
(http://i533.photobucket.com/albums/ee338/the_arb/100_4378.jpg)
Here is a study on it:
Mobil 1 M1-301
Like the Wix, this filter is made by Dana. However, it is a strange hybrid-type design. The cartridge is the better one-piece found in the low-end Dana filters, but it uses the different end plate and a thicker can than any other Dana filter. It also does not use the fragile paper media of the low-end Dana. I’m happy to say that this filter is NOT a fake. It is definately a unique design.
It uses a synthetic fiber element that can filter out very small particles and is much stronger than the fragile, low-end Dana paper media. It is rated just under the Purolator Pure One as far as filtering capability, but is still very much above conventional paper filters. It also has a very strong construction to withstand high pressure spikes during start-up. Given the choice between the Purolator Pure One and the Mobil 1 filters, I would choose the Mobil 1 because of the restriction concerns of the Pure One and that pesky assembly string. However, as with all Mobil 1 products, expect to pay 2 - 3 times as much for this filter.
Average Retail Price $10
Cartridge Length 4.250 inches
Cartridge OD 3.250 inches, ID 1.625 inches
Cartridge Pleats 52
Cartridge End Cap Type Stamped-steel, with bypass valve
Anti-Drainback Valve Type Nitrile rubber diaphram
Bypass Valve Type Spring-loaded steel, nitrile seal
Element Type Synthetic media, glued seam
Element Length 85 inches, Width 4.125 inches
Element Surface Area 351 square inches
Shell Thickness
Backplate Thickness 0.138 inches
Gasket Type Nitrile rubber
Hydrostatic Burst Pressure 600 psi
SAE J806 Filter Efficiency Single pass: 98%, Multiple pass: 95%
http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Files/Mobil1FilterSellSheet.pdf
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Downs/3837/oilfilst.html
http://people.msoe.edu/~yoderw/oilfilterstudy/oilfilterstudy.html
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geez 10 bucks? The filter on my tractor (Int prostar)is almost 40 bucks at the stealership.
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I tried to get a oil filter one time and napa was out of 'em so I got a gasser eurovan 5 cyl filter, threads were the same. The napa guy looked it up and found that the diesel filters down to 20 microns and the gasser one was 25 microns. Weird since the eurovan one is quite a bit longer.
Just for kicks, I was changing the filter on a cessna 170 145HP continental and found that my rabbit filters have the same threads and o-ring :o.
there are a few common oil finter base sizes. lots of imports and domestics use this small type base. so it may thread on and be the same gasket, but that DOES NOT mean that it will work the same. like he was saying about the bypass valve in the filter, they all have different opening pressures.
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Yeah I am most likely going to opt for remote location if I can't get the stock size to fit. The problem isthe stock one is just so friggen huge, I need one with a smaller diameter, or go remote... which is what it's looking like unfortunately.
GArry
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Yes the Fram *don't use it as fram sucks* PH3569 has a bypass pressure of around 38psi where the PH8A has a bypas of about 17psi or something. I don't remember the specifics of it but it was less than half. The 3569 is the one that our cars list, but it will cross reference to a PH8A for other applications like a ford 400 engine. I use the screw on TDI filter I think it is a Mahle and have no bad results.
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what we need to have is a filter reference guide with thread pitch, volume, filtration and bypass pressure.
www.aloha34.com/information/oilfiltertable.pdf speaking of which, it gives us the part # and thread pitch, all we need to do is get the other info
wix link http://www.wixfilters.com/filterlookup/index.asp (http://www.wixfilters.com/filterlookup/index.asp)
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The only filters i have not had huge problems with, be it filter blowing up, not holding pressure, leaking and so on...
are bosch and mann filters.
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I have always been particular about oil filters since I started changing it myself,
always Mahle or Mann filters.
I buy them by the case and am set for a long while. (its the way I can afford it: $5-6 ea)
I have never had a single oil filter related issue (in 13 years in Mk2's!)
I did not look at this one before I put it on,
but I wonder if they have a spring loaded filter bypass to sustain flow like the mahle for the 16v?
-Brad
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Just wondering how many miles do you guys have on yours engines using Mann or others expensive filters? You talk with great experience.
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on my first golf I had almost half a million k before I packed it in, I changed at the recomended service intervals give or take 200 K. I just believe in regular PM, and for the record I've only used Fram in chevies and fords.
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Hmm... Hard to exactly calculate the miles I have put on Mk2 or Mk3 chassis,
but, (in chronological order)
88 Golf, 1.5 yrs = 20k mi
91 GLi 16v, 3.5 Yrs = 80k (?)
98 GTi 2.0, 8 yrs = 140k miles,
85 Jetta TD, 1 year, 20k miles.
(I have never not driven a watercooler full time! from 1996 to now)
I drive a lot. (for a city dweller anyway)
I have averaged 20k miles / yr.
And always been in a Mk2 chassis (I still consider 4 cylinder Mk3's Mk2's)
with 4 cylinders, 5 speeds, and manual windows...
(and German oil filters!)
Only way to fly!
Now, I have had an aircooled (78 camper Bus), for 9 years so far,
but never daily driven. She's a 77,000 mile garage queen.
-Brad
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I had the same trouble (filter clearance) when I installed the TD into my caddy. I found a MANN filter from an Audi 100TD (Mann W1130/1). The filter is shorter so it did not interfere with the rad support. However, the filter is fatter, and would not fit until I removed the welded nut from the heater tube (the one that goes from the water pump to the heater core, the nut for the starter motor bolt).