Gasoline oil filter on a diesel...

[Darth Garry]

Ran into a major clearance issue last night on my Caddy, radiator is too close to oil filter to fit.  Just goofing around, I put a 1.8L gas oil filter on and suprisingly it fit with enough clearance.

My question is, (please don't get angry with me!) - What are the major differences between the two filters?  The filter that fits on my diesel is the same filter for Ford gasoline applications, are the filters really that much different?

The only things that I can wager is that the Diesel filter has more "capacity" i.e. it's bigger, probably more filtration surface area.  If it's already used on gas and diesel applications, I wonder if the filtration size is the same?   

Could I get away with this if I swap the filters more often, i.e. every 1500 miles?  Or is it just playing with disaster and I should consider a remote relocation kit.

Any comments greatly appreciated.

Garry

[Rabbit on Roids]

VW diesels do not use ford filters...
you might have a ford filter on your engine, but thats not correct.
trust me, ive had to deal with oil filters.
all my parts suppliers around here say it takes a SPECIFIC filter.
and the funny thing is, that the only calling for this particular filter, is only for VW diesel applications.

[allsierra123]

I was wondering the same thing. I noticed that the my mother inlaws new ford flex has the same filter as my aaz. even threads on there.

[jtanguay]

the vw gasoline engines switched over to the diesel oil filter a while back.  due to the added capacity and superior filtering...  so its more like diesel oil filter on a gasoline engine 

only use a MANN or Bosch filter although i think there are a few other brands that are acceptable.  i've tried the amsoil Ea filter and it was good.  they say it filters to 15 microns, but who knows.

[macka]

Wix is one of the other acceptable filters, you can get them @ NAPA. A lot of companies are re spec'ing filters to run both D and gas to cut overhead. IMO the risk you run with a smaller filter is more changes, as long as the filter element has the same filtration spec as the OEM part. 

[jtanguay]

just to add to this thread... for gods sake do NOT run a FRAM oil filter!!! 

[rabbitman]

I tried to get a oil filter one time and napa was out of 'em so I got a gasser eurovan 5 cyl filter, threads were the same. The napa guy looked it up and found that the diesel filters down to 20 microns and the gasser one was 25 microns. Weird since the eurovan one is quite a bit longer.

Just for kicks, I was changing the filter on a cessna 170 145HP continental and found that my rabbit filters have the same threads and o-ring .

[Swampy]

Another option may be to call your local Baldwin dealer.  I believe they are a great industrial filter and run them on everything I own, including VW diesels.  For many applications they offer an oversize or 1 qt additional filter option.  They can cross search and figure out working pressures, thread and pitch, filter media, by-pass or non by-pass, and designed working pressures.  I agree, stock is best...but I dont think there is any reason you cant find a quality replacement to fit.  Many Cat, John Deere, etc industrial engines run Baldwin filters.  We run them exclusively at work on everything from 50HP up to 6,000HP.  Hope this helps.

[arb]

I went the other way - a full synthetic filter made for extended diesel useage - Mobil-1  M1-301. My filter flange is also turned 35 degress or so, but that's another story.

One thing to keep in mind about using filters from other engines is the by-pass valve is usually mde in the filter. Different engines can have different pressure settings for the by-pass. It could be the gas filter could have a lower setting allowing all your oil to by-pass the filter early on. You have no indication if it is by-passing.



Here is a study on it:

Mobil 1 M1-301
Like the Wix, this filter is made by Dana. However, it is a strange hybrid-type design. The cartridge is the better one-piece found in the low-end Dana filters, but it uses the different end plate and a thicker can than any other Dana filter. It also does not use the fragile paper media of the low-end Dana. I’m happy to say that this filter is NOT a fake. It is definately a unique design.

It uses a synthetic fiber element that can filter out very small particles and is much stronger than the fragile, low-end Dana paper media. It is rated just under the Purolator Pure One as far as filtering capability, but is still very much above conventional paper filters. It also has a very strong construction to withstand high pressure spikes during start-up. Given the choice between the Purolator Pure One and the Mobil 1 filters, I would choose the Mobil 1 because of the restriction concerns of the Pure One and that pesky assembly string. However, as with all Mobil 1 products, expect to pay 2 - 3 times as much for this filter.

Average Retail Price         $10
Cartridge Length             4.250 inches
Cartridge OD  3.250 inches, ID  1.625 inches
Cartridge Pleats             52
Cartridge End Cap Type       Stamped-steel, with bypass valve
Anti-Drainback Valve Type    Nitrile rubber diaphram
Bypass Valve Type            Spring-loaded steel, nitrile seal
Element Type                 Synthetic media, glued seam
Element Length  85 inches, Width  4.125 inches
Element Surface Area         351 square inches
Shell Thickness              
Backplate Thickness          0.138 inches
Gasket Type                  Nitrile rubber
Hydrostatic Burst Pressure   600 psi
SAE J806 Filter Efficiency    Single pass: 98%, Multiple pass: 95%

http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Files/Mobil1FilterSellSheet.pdf
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Downs/3837/oilfilst.html
http://people.msoe.edu/~yoderw/oilfilterstudy/oilfilterstudy.html

[macka]

geez 10 bucks? The filter on my tractor (Int prostar)is almost 40 bucks at the stealership.

[Rabbit on Roids]

I tried to get a oil filter one time and napa was out of 'em so I got a gasser eurovan 5 cyl filter, threads were the same. The napa guy looked it up and found that the diesel filters down to 20 microns and the gasser one was 25 microns. Weird since the eurovan one is quite a bit longer.

Just for kicks, I was changing the filter on a cessna 170 145HP continental and found that my rabbit filters have the same threads and o-ring .

there are a few common oil finter base sizes. lots of imports and domestics use this small type base. so it may thread on and be the same gasket, but that DOES NOT mean that it will work the same. like he was saying about the bypass valve in the filter, they all have different opening pressures.

[Darth Garry]

Yeah I am most likely going to opt for remote location if I can't get the stock size to fit.  The problem isthe stock one is just so friggen huge, I need one with a smaller diameter, or go remote... which is what it's looking like unfortunately.

GArry

[theman53]

Yes the Fram *don't use it as fram sucks* PH3569 has a bypass pressure of around 38psi where the PH8A has a bypas of about 17psi or something. I don't remember the specifics of it but it was less than half. The 3569 is the one that our cars list, but it will cross reference to a PH8A for other applications like a ford 400 engine. I use the screw on TDI filter I think it is a Mahle and have no bad results.

[macka]

what we need to have is a filter reference guide with thread pitch, volume, filtration and bypass pressure.

www.aloha34.com/information/oilfiltertable.pdf  speaking of which, it gives us the part # and thread pitch, all we need to do is get the other info

wix link http://www.wixfilters.com/filterlookup/index.asp

[Smokey Eddy]

The only filters i have not had huge problems with, be it filter blowing up, not holding pressure, leaking and so on...

are bosch and mann filters.