Author Topic: Will a 95.5 mm crank fit in a 220mm block? (Read 7801 times)

rabbid79 · « **on:** August 21, 2006, 09:27:01 pm »

Just curious. I have a couple of 5-cylinder 2.0 diesels, and calculated that I can punch one out to 2.4 liters with a 95.5 mm crank, and 80.0 mm pistons. It also looks like a VNT-20 might bolt straight up to the 2.0 TD manifold. Just thinking...

vwmike · « **Reply #1 on:** August 21, 2006, 09:56:54 pm »

The big Eurovan 2.4 was basically a 5 cylinder version of the 1.9 with 95.5mm stroke and 79.5mm bore. The gas 5 cylinder Eurovans also used the 95.5 from what I've heard.

itzdshtz · « **Reply #2 on:** August 22, 2006, 09:19:05 pm »

Hi, new on this forum, I am building a 2.0 Audi TD for my Vanagon syncro and I was thinking about converting to bigger bore and stroke, but decided not to.

The cylinders on the turbo gas version are siamesed, but on the 2.0 TD the cyl. have a opening between them and the cyl. wall thickness would become too thin if you bore to 79.5 MM.

Taking a turbo gas engine and converting it to diesel will not work because there in not enough support for the pre-combustion chamber. ( there are water passages there).

Still looking for a rebuildable head for my spare engine.

Herman

rabbid79 · « **Reply #3 on:** August 23, 2006, 12:09:01 am »

Thanks for the replies. Itzdshtz, do you have a picture of the opening between the cylinders? Would the 1.6 TD also have these openings?

Also, how far did you go in researching lengthening the stroke? I guess if you went with a 77.00 mm bore and a 95.5 mm stroke, that would be 2.223 liters. That's still almost 40% larger than a 1.6, and 17% larger than a 1.9, which is significant. The way I see it, if a properly built 1.6 TD can generate 200 HP, why couldn't a properly built 2.2 TD generate 280 HP?

itzdshtz · « **Reply #4 on:** August 23, 2006, 05:06:21 pm »

Hi, I have no pictures of the opening between the cyl, it is too hard to get a camera in there. You can push a piece of wire through the coolant opening in between the liners and watch it come out on the other side.

This is the same on a 1.6 TD. That's why you only have one steamhole in the top deck between the cyl, it is open. Siamesed cyl. have a small hole on either side.

I used to install long stroke crankshafts in 1.6 GTI engines to make em into 1.9 Ltr (Oettinger) and we had to grind out the bottom of the cylinders and the inside of the crankcase to make room for the connecting rods. The crankcase of the 1.6 gas engine is basically the same as the 1.6 TD and the 2.0 Audi 5 TD, so you should be able to get a long stroke crank in there.

The problem is with the pistons, because of the longer stroke, they will stick out of the engine deck too far. That's why the 2.4 diesel has a higher deck hight than the 2.0 diesel. Nobody sells a piston with the rings and pin moved up to compensate for this.

You should be able to get over 200 Hp out of an Audi 2.0 TD if you wanted, it already has slightly larger intake valves than a 1.6 TD and the exhaust manifold is more freeflowing than the 1.6TD.
I would add a pre-oiler because cold starts are hard on these engines, also you could put a small notch into the connecting rod sides so that it throws more oil onto the cyl.
It looks like the 2.4 D headgasket will fit on there and I would use studs.

Hope this was helpfull, Herman

rabbid79 · « **Reply #5 on:** August 23, 2006, 11:16:08 pm »

Yes, that was helpful. Unless there's a solution to this piston issue, it sounds like the stroke would have to stay at 86.4 mm. A 92.8 mm might also be an option, but it doesn't seem like it would be worth it. That would only take the motor to 2.16 liters, which just isn't enough of an improvement.

Is the 2.4 head gasket desirable because it's metal? I also didn't realize that the intake valves were larger. The exhaust manifold does seem a bit larger. I really like the idea of putting a VNT-20 on there. From what I understand, the VNT-20 is good for about 250 HP, and that's about where a properly built 2.0 TD would be. That much power in a gutted out '84 Audi 4000 quattro would still go-like-hell.

Audi80 · « **Reply #6 on:** August 24, 2006, 12:59:10 am »

I would say that VNT20 is good up to 180hp, not much higher. We are building 2,4 to my friends Audi 100 and we are going to use VNT25 for that. And our goal is only 200hp.

rabbid79 · « **Reply #7 on:** August 24, 2006, 06:44:59 pm »

Really? I've heard that some 150 PD motors with VNT-17s have been chipped to almost 200. I thought the "big" upgrade was to do a VNT-17/20 hybrid to get well past 200. kermatdi.com sells VNT-20s, and says they'll make well over 200 WHP. I'm no expert, that's just what I've heard. Check out the physical size difference between a VNT-15 (same size as a VNT-17) and a VNT-20:
http://jsperformance.ca/gallery/albums/album04/IMG_0757.sized.jpg
http://jsperformance.ca/gallery/albums/album04/IMG_0755.sized.jpg

935racer · « **Reply #8 on:** August 24, 2006, 07:58:25 pm »

I would never run anything smaller than a vnt 20 on 1.9, TDIclub.com's version of a "large" turbo is a little out to wack.

Vnt 20 is still on the small side in my opinion, for a modified daily driver and if I had to use a vnt turbo I would run a vnt 22, for a modified street car I would run a vnt25.

rabbid79 · « **Reply #9 on:** August 26, 2006, 12:52:29 am »

935racer, do you happen to know what the turbo to exhaust manifold bolt pattern for VNT-22s and VNT-25s looks like? Is is the same as the VNT-20?

DVST8R · « **Reply #10 on:** August 26, 2006, 09:57:39 am »

Iirc the VNT22 turbine is the same bolt pattern of the standerd T3, or GT20 - 25.

935racer · « **Reply #11 on:** August 26, 2006, 11:21:32 am »

Quote from: rabbid79

935racer, do you happen to know what the turbo to exhaust manifold bolt pattern for VNT-22s and VNT-25s looks like? Is is the same as the VNT-20?

The 22 I know is the same as the 20, the 25 I am not completely sure as I have never seen one in person, although from the pictures I have seen they looks the same.

935racer · « **Reply #12 on:** August 26, 2006, 11:22:41 am »

Quote from: DVST8R

Iirc the VNT22 turbine is the same bolt pattern of the standerd T3, or GT20 - 25.

Actually I think the bolt pattern is slightly different, but I will know for sure on monday and I'll post up than.

935racer · « **Reply #13 on:** August 26, 2006, 11:25:15 am »

Quote from: rabbid79

Really? I've heard that some 150 PD motors with VNT-17s have been chipped to almost 200. I thought the "big" upgrade was to do a VNT-17/20 hybrid to get well past 200. kermatdi.com sells VNT-20s, and says they'll make well over 200 WHP. I'm no expert, that's just what I've heard. Check out the physical size difference between a VNT-15 (same size as a VNT-17) and a VNT-20:
http://jsperformance.ca/gallery/albums/album04/IMG_0757.sized.jpg
http://jsperformance.ca/gallery/albums/album04/IMG_0755.sized.jpg

Just because you managed to make a certain amount of power with a certain turbo doesnt mean it was effecient and you were causing more harm or work for the rest of your engine than necessary. The vnt15 is a rediculously small turbo, the drive pressures on that thing are way out to the moon when installed on a 1.9tdi. Probably perfect for 1000cc smart car engine or something.

DVST8R · « **Reply #14 on:** August 26, 2006, 12:42:50 pm »

Quote from: "935racer"

Quote from: "DVST8R"
Iirc the VNT22 turbine is the same bolt pattern of the standerd T3, or GT20 - 25.

Actually I think the bolt pattern is slightly different, but I will know for sure on monday and I'll post up than.

If you remember when we had the pd130 in your shop, it had a full vnt-22 and it bolted up perfectly to Mark's manifold for his gt-20. :wink:

Author Topic: Will a 95.5 mm crank fit in a 220mm block? (Read 7801 times)

Audi80

935racer

935racer

935racer

935racer