Author Topic: How long does a rear main seal last?  (Read 17578 times)

June 25, 2015, 07:35:58 am

92EcoDiesel Jetta

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How long does a rear main seal last?
« on: June 25, 2015, 07:35:58 am »
I am doing a clutch job on my 92 Jetta 1.6 Ecodiesel. While in there, should I (or should I not) replace the rear main seal on the crank? I've read the rear main seal is the least likely to leak of all the seals in the engine and tranny. My does not leak currently  (I do not see any black oil drips from the bell housing). I'll have a closer look once I remove the pressure plate and retainer.


The parts needed are around $145 genuine VW  or $30 aftermarket (Elring)
https://www.fcpeuro.com/products?keywords=068103171f
[/size]https://www.fcpeuro.com/products?keywords=026103181b[/size][size=78%]  [/size]


Should I replace it or leave it alone since it is not leaking? Is the Elring (that is much cheaper) any good or only the genuine VW will work with no leaks?


Reply #1June 25, 2015, 08:37:20 am

RunninWild

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Re: How long does a rear main seal last?
« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2015, 08:37:20 am »
You should just be able to replace the seal without the entire housing no? I'd do it depending on the mileage just for peace of mind.

Reply #2June 25, 2015, 09:16:20 am

TylerDurden

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Re: How long does a rear main seal last?
« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2015, 09:16:20 am »
I used aftermarket last time with no problems so far... I put in the type with the carrier and gooped the bottom at the oil pan after a good cleaning/degreasing. (did not change the oil pan gasket).

Reply #3June 25, 2015, 09:58:49 am

92EcoDiesel Jetta

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Re: How long does a rear main seal last?
« Reply #3 on: June 25, 2015, 09:58:49 am »
You should just be able to replace the seal without the entire housing no? I'd do it depending on the mileage just for peace of mind.

Yes you can but it is tricky to get it right from what I've read, being such a big seal. I saw a video where some kind of round cup support for the inner lip of the seal is used while driving it in. And I've read that some use a lid from a margarine tub as support. By using the flange/seal assembly, you eliminate some of those seal alone potential problems.

Reply #4June 25, 2015, 10:12:14 am

92EcoDiesel Jetta

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Re: How long does a rear main seal last?
« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2015, 10:12:14 am »
I used aftermarket last time with no problems so far... I put in the type with the carrier and gooped the bottom at the oil pan after a good cleaning/degreasing. (did not change the oil pan gasket).

Was yours leaking or you replaced it as preventive? I will get the Elring flange. They are in stock at FCP and I will pick them up Saturday instead of having it shipped, which will take longer, they are not far from here.

Reply #5June 25, 2015, 02:16:23 pm

TylerDurden

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Re: How long does a rear main seal last?
« Reply #5 on: June 25, 2015, 02:16:23 pm »
I changed mine as a preventative measure.

Reply #6June 25, 2015, 02:22:23 pm

srgtlord

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Re: How long does a rear main seal last?
« Reply #6 on: June 25, 2015, 02:22:23 pm »
I left mine alone when I found out mine was not leaking when I swapped my tranny 5 years ago. Still no leaks.

Reply #7June 26, 2015, 04:51:19 am

RabbitJockey

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Re: How long does a rear main seal last?
« Reply #7 on: June 26, 2015, 04:51:19 am »
i don't mess with them unless they are leaking.  i had a bad experience once where i got 2 bad rear main seals so i had my transmission in and out 3 times.  so now if its not leaking i leave it alone.
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81 Rabbit:TDI-M ported head, Frank06 cam, PD intake, hybrid T3 turbo, Renault intercooler, Syl20 11mm pump, light weight fw, and yellow California Clutch clutch kit

Reply #8June 26, 2015, 04:58:23 am

92EcoDiesel Jetta

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Re: How long does a rear main seal last?
« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2015, 04:58:23 am »
i don't mess with them unless they are leaking.  i had a bad experience once where i got 2 bad rear main seals so i had my transmission in and out 3 times.  so now if its not leaking i leave it alone.

What brand seal was it? Was it a seal that you drove in or flange/seal assembly?

Reply #9June 26, 2015, 08:54:24 am

RabbitJockey

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Re: How long does a rear main seal last?
« Reply #9 on: June 26, 2015, 08:54:24 am »
they were both seals i drove in, the first one i don't know the brand of, it looked like a good seal but it came from a friends parts storage, the second one was a napa brand seal but looked like a cheap ***ty one, and the last one was oem and sealed fine.   i love napa and they do carry good seals especially on their altrom line but what ever that one was it sucked and was only single lipped and made out of a ***ty rubber.  i was in highschool so i just tried it.
01 Jetta TDI 100% stock daily
81 Rabbit:TDI-M ported head, Frank06 cam, PD intake, hybrid T3 turbo, Renault intercooler, Syl20 11mm pump, light weight fw, and yellow California Clutch clutch kit

Reply #10June 27, 2015, 10:08:09 pm

fatmobile

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Re: How long does a rear main seal last?
« Reply #10 on: June 27, 2015, 10:08:09 pm »
Just the seal or seal and carrier,... both need the "sour cream" container slid over the crank so the lip doesn't snag on the crank and flip.
If installing just the seal; it has to be parallel to the crank. Not just lined-up with the seal carrier edge.
Look at how it sits in the carrier before you remove it. You'll see it.

 I use an old pressure plate and some spacers:
 a spacer washer from a dasher alternator pully sits flat with the end of the crank.
 I cut a washer the size of the seal and it sets the seal square with the crank.
Tornado red, '91 Golf 4 door, with M-TDI 12mm pump, south bend clutch, VNT-15 turbo, 02A trany
MK4s: 2000 TDI jetta, 2003 TDI wagon, 2000 golf 2.0 gasser.
'84 Rabbit with 1.7TD KY block pistons bored to 80mm, VNT-15
'84 GTI with stock 1.6TD starion intercooler.

Reply #11June 29, 2015, 01:51:02 am

Toby

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SEAL REPLACEMENT 101
« Reply #11 on: June 29, 2015, 01:51:02 am »
1) It is usually not a good idea to mess with any seal that is hard to get at without a good reason. A good reason might be that it is already leaking or the motor was severely overheated.

2) Cheap vinyl (black) seals are crap and wear out fast even if prelubed. W/O prelube service life can be weeks. Avoid them like the plague. ALWAYS use a Viton (red) seal if there is one available.

3) ALWAYS prelube the seal lip with a light coat of grease. This keeps it from wearing out very fast. Many OEM factory rear seals come pre-greased when you buy them. Eventually oil will lube the seal so that dry rubber is not running on hot dry steel, but by then the seal is damaged and will have a short service life. Install the outside DRY, if it will go in that way. NEVER put oil, grease, or any kind of sealer on the outside of the seal as this may cause it to pop out from a very small amount of crankcase pressure. If you need a lubricant to get a tacky Viton seal in its bore use a little brake cleaner or the like. Something that will evaporate and let the seals tacky outside hold it in position later. If you just have to use RTV see 3a.

3a) RTV is a lifesaver and a curse rolled into one. If you are going to use it on the outside of the seal, make sure that is COMPLETELY cured before running the motor or getting oil on it. That means at least 24 hours. Oil on uncured RTV makes it turn to Jello and never set up. Always use RTV labeled "OEM". This stuff is what the factories use and it is MUCH better than anything with a label like "Super Blue" or "High Temp". Buy it at the Ford or GM store if you have to.

4) Protect the inner lip if there is any chance of it being cut during installation. Usually any shaft that has a lip seal on it will have some kind of bevel on it to prevent seal damage on installation. Always check and make sure nothing damages the lip. Lip damage is much more likely if the seal is dry rather than prelubed.

5) Seal drivers are best, but they can be started with your fingers, if you are strong, and then seated with soft taps from a LIGHT hammer. This takes a deft touch, so if you are a ham fisted goon, use a seal driver.

Reply #12June 29, 2015, 05:50:25 am

92EcoDiesel Jetta

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Re: How long does a rear main seal last?
« Reply #12 on: June 29, 2015, 05:50:25 am »
Just the seal or seal and carrier,... both need the "sour cream" container slid over the crank so the lip doesn't snag on the crank and flip.
If installing just the seal; it has to be parallel to the crank. Not just lined-up with the seal carrier edge.
Look at how it sits in the carrier before you remove it. You'll see it.

 I use an old pressure plate and some spacers:
 a spacer washer from a dasher alternator pully sits flat with the end of the crank.
 I cut a washer the size of the seal and it sets the seal square with the crank.

What about installing a seal/carrier assembly? Is the seal guaranteed to be parallel to the crank? Or do you have to make it parallel with the contraption you have devised?

Reply #13June 29, 2015, 06:00:51 am

92EcoDiesel Jetta

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Re: How long does a rear main seal last?
« Reply #13 on: June 29, 2015, 06:00:51 am »
1) It is usually not a good idea to mess with any seal that is hard to get at without a good reason. A good reason might be that it is already leaking or the motor was severely overheated.

2) Cheap vinyl (black) seals are crap and wear out fast even if prelubed. W/O prelube service life can be weeks. Avoid them like the plague. ALWAYS use a Viton (red) seal if there is one available.

3) ALWAYS prelube the seal lip with a light coat of grease. This keeps it from wearing out very fast. Many OEM factory rear seals come pre-greased when you buy them. Eventually oil will lube the seal so that dry rubber is not running on hot dry steel, but by then the seal is damaged and will have a short service life. Install the outside DRY, if it will go in that way. NEVER put oil, grease, or any kind of sealer on the outside of the seal as this may cause it to pop out from a very small amount of crankcase pressure. If you need a lubricant to get a tacky Viton seal in its bore use a little brake cleaner or the like. Something that will evaporate and let the seals tacky outside hold it in position later. If you just have to use RTV see 3a.

3a) RTV is a lifesaver and a curse rolled into one. If you are going to use it on the outside of the seal, make sure that is COMPLETELY cured before running the motor or getting oil on it. That means at least 24 hours. Oil on uncured RTV makes it turn to Jello and never set up. Always use RTV labeled "OEM". This stuff is what the factories use and it is MUCH better than anything with a label like "Super Blue" or "High Temp". Buy it at the Ford or GM store if you have to.

4) Protect the inner lip if there is any chance of it being cut during installation. Usually any shaft that has a lip seal on it will have some kind of bevel on it to prevent seal damage on installation. Always check and make sure nothing damages the lip. Lip damage is much more likely if the seal is dry rather than prelubed.

5) Seal drivers are best, but they can be started with your fingers, if you are strong, and then seated with soft taps from a LIGHT hammer. This takes a deft touch, so if you are a ham fisted goon, use a seal driver.

Thanks for the detailed post Toby! I have a question on 2). Are there any aftermarket VW rear main seals made from Vinyl? I thought most seals are made from NBR (Nitrile Buna Rubber) and biodiesel resistant seals are made from Viton.

Can you tell what a seal is made of from color alone? I bought the Elring rear main seal/carrier and it is black. I have a red rear main seal from a seal kit from Prothe and it is red. So The Prothe seal is Viton and the Elring is Vinyl? I wonder what color is the VW OE seal? I'll take some pictures of them and post later.

Reply #14June 29, 2015, 11:14:11 am

fatmobile

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Re: How long does a rear main seal last?
« Reply #14 on: June 29, 2015, 11:14:11 am »
Just the seal or seal and carrier,... both need the "sour cream" container slid over the crank so the lip doesn't snag on the crank and flip.
If installing just the seal; it has to be parallel to the crank. Not just lined-up with the seal carrier edge.
Look at how it sits in the carrier before you remove it. You'll see it.

 I use an old pressure plate and some spacers:
 a spacer washer from a dasher alternator pully sits flat with the end of the crank.
 I cut a washer the size of the seal and it sets the seal square with the crank.

What about installing a seal/carrier assembly? Is the seal guaranteed to be parallel to the crank? Or do you have to make it parallel with the contraption you have devised?
Probably installed parallel to the machined rear side of the seal carrier,.. which is square with the block/crank.
Tornado red, '91 Golf 4 door, with M-TDI 12mm pump, south bend clutch, VNT-15 turbo, 02A trany
MK4s: 2000 TDI jetta, 2003 TDI wagon, 2000 golf 2.0 gasser.
'84 Rabbit with 1.7TD KY block pistons bored to 80mm, VNT-15
'84 GTI with stock 1.6TD starion intercooler.